Eighteen year old killed in highschool explosion

Ciszewski · May 30, 2011

When I took a welding course in college the instructor told us of stories of guys getting killed by cutting or welding on old oil drums. He warned us never to do this as the explosive vapours can stay in them for a very long time, even after sitting empty for years. I always wondered if this had actually happened or if he was just trying to scare the Jesus out of us so that we would never try it. I guess he was telling the truth. It happened & unfortunately, it still happens today.
BE safe, think what you're doing.
Ottawa student dies after explosion at school - Yahoo! News

Ox · May 30, 2011

We cut the tops out of 55 gal barrels occassionally. I wonder what made this one not go so good?

I wonder if he had the bung hole open or not?

Peppermint oil eh?
You wouldn't think that would have such a low flash point?

---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Keith Krome · May 30, 2011

Ox said:
We cut the tops out of 55 gal barrels occassionally. I wonder what made this one not go so good?

I wonder if he had the bung hole open or not?

Peppermint oil eh?
You wouldn't think that would have such a low flash point?

I've cut one or two as well, but they didn't contain oil previously.

I think the problem is an explosive proportion forms when the air/fuel mix is in the zone. Flash point is irrelevant with a cutting torch nearby. I don't think there is any oil that has a flash point above an oxy-acetylene torch.

You should fill it mostly with water if you must work on a tank that had flammable contents, with an opening, obviously. Better yet, use a drum head cutter or something other than a torch. A drum filled to within an inch of the top isn't going to explode. And if it did, the volume is such that I would hope it wouldn't kill you.

I'm not advocating using a torch on drums, BTW. All usual disclaimers apply, think it through yourself first.

Conrad Hoffman · May 30, 2011

I've never worked on a tank or drum, but my dad always told me you have to fill them with water to be safe. Another one that seems to kill people every now and then is trying to weld on a tire rim that still has a pressurized tire on it.

Co2 mech · May 30, 2011

Not so good

We had a forman do this back in the day. He was actually straddeling the drum when it detonated. The drum contained a chemical to make weld splatter come off easier, kind of like a low grade soap, non flamable as you can get. Still it blew the ends off the drum and split open the sides far enough to break his ankle and impart a healthy respect for safety.

Ciszewski · May 31, 2011

Ox said:
Peppermint oil eh?
You wouldn't think that would have such a low flash point?

Hello Ox
Remember it's not the liquid, it's the vapours. Liquid gas does not burn, it has to be vapourized to burn. What happens when you flood an engine? You get raw gas in the cylinders, plugs get wet & will not fire.
Now that said, I still wouldn't atempt to strike an arc or take my cutting torch to a full drum of gas. :nutter:

DDoug · May 31, 2011

I had a weldor friend climb up on a 10,000 gallon tank full of salt brine to cut a large
hole in it. It's full of water, it's safe.....(there was a small area un-full)

It went WOOF, and luckily he only got splashed with brine water.

The salt brine was from gas well's around here, if you bang on the side of the
tank, the natural gas bubble's up and out like carbonated water.

I have cut only a few tanks, but I fill them completely full.

"How do you torch them, full of water ?"

I use an arc welder to melt it.

Greg-NWO · May 31, 2011

Same thing happened to a guy here locally a few years ago. He didn't die but he was in the hospital for a few weeks.

Modelman · May 31, 2011

Reminds me of a story of my dad's... he was working in a welding job shop just after returning from WWII, and the job of the day was to change the tags on some aluminum beer kegs. The kegs were lined up on the gas burners to pre-heat them, bungs removed. When he got the first one in position, he happened to pass his torch by the bung hole and BOOM :eek:

Blew the thing out through the window into the middle of Clark St., taking the window sash with it. Luckily no one was hurt, but a few guys needed a change of underwear. :willy_nilly:

Who'd a thunk there would be enough alcohol residue to ignite from beer... especially American beer? :cheers:

Dennis

adama · May 31, 2011

Worth bearing in mind with a cutting torch its easy to have a neutral flame, hence gradually filling what your cutting up with at least a semi flammable atmosphere.

GregSY · May 31, 2011

I've had guys who weld on tanks tell me they first fill them with exhaust gas from whatever vehicle is handy.

Ciszewski · May 31, 2011

Hello Adama
So a neutral flame would be safe to use on that full drum of gas?

moonlight machine · Jun 1, 2011

I just use a barrel de header.....it's like a big can opener....no flame, no bang. When I was working in Ft Lauderdale in about '85 or '86 the guys at a welding shop down the road were cutting on a tank truck. It blew up and killed a few of them. After the funerals they got back to work cutting on the tanker. It blew up again and killed a few more of them........

Screwmachine · Jun 1, 2011

Not quite the same but a few years back I needed to seal up (solder) a leaky gas tank on my old Volvo. Removed tank, set a vacuum cleaner on 'blow' mode and blew it out for about 20 minutes, then from around the corner of the building stuffed a lit rag in using a looong rod. All good, soldered her up and she never leaked again.

DDoug · Jun 1, 2011

Screwmachine said:
Not quite the same but a few years back I needed to seal up (solder) a leaky gas tank on my old Volvo. Removed tank, set a vacuum cleaner on 'blow' mode and blew it out for about 20 minutes, then from around the corner of the building stuffed a lit rag in using a looong rod. All good, soldered her up and she never leaked again.

Or you could just heat up a soldering copper somewhere else, and do the solder job
with that, no fire, no sparks, no problems.

adama · Jun 1, 2011

Ciszewski said:
Hello Adama
So a neutral flame would be safe to use on that full drum of gas?

No im saying even on a clean brand new never touched anything drum a gas cutting torch can in use fill it with a explosive atmosphere. A lot of people have been injured this way as they don't see the risk.

Fear Factory · Jun 1, 2011

GregSY said:
I've had guys who weld on tanks tell me they first fill them with exhaust gas from whatever vehicle is handy.

I was just about to say that, a bloke who used to work with us had repaired a large amount of petrol tanks over the years using this method.

Don't actually know how it works though, Anybody know?

Screwmachine · Jun 1, 2011

digger doug said:
Or you could just heat up a soldering copper somewhere else, and do the solder job
with that, no fire, no sparks, no problems.

What? Where would the fun be in that?!

Just had a little propane torch back then, doubt it would have had the guts to get a copper hot enough.

Modelman · Jun 1, 2011

Fear Factory said:
I was just about to say that, a bloke who used to work with us had repaired a large amount of petrol tanks over the years using this method.

Don't actually know how it works though, Anybody know?

The theory is the exhaust gasses displace the oxygen in the tank with a mixture of CO and CO2, so even if there are flammable vapors present in the tank, there is no oxygen for them to combine with; therefore no explosion. Works for soldering and stick welding, but cutting again has the risk of introducing excess O2 from the torch.

Dennis

Ciszewski · Jun 1, 2011

Hello Fear Factory
The theory behind that is that you need two things for a fire (or explosion), a combustible material & oxygen. Filling up the vessel with CO2 from the exhaust displaces the oxygen. That's the same as filling with water, it displaces the oxygen.
I hate to admit it, because I might come across as a hypocrite after my warning in my original post. I hate Hypocrites & always try to practice what I preach (but I didn't say not to do it, just be careful with what you are doing).

I had a leaky diesel tank on a tractor & heard about filling the tank with exhaust or water. I didn't want to use water as it would have been a chore to remove it all before putting the tank back into service. I inquired at my welding supplier and was told about dry ice(made out of CO2), by the first fellow I spoke with. He said "oh yeah works great". When I went to pick some up, it was a different story. We'll give you some, but we don't condone the use of it for that reason ( can you say liability issues?) I put the dry ice in the tank & waited for it to melt & watched the vapours coming out of the filler spout for a while to make sure all the air was purged out & replaced with CO2. My heart skipped a beat as I pulled the trigger. No boom, I'm alive!
A fellow I know has a tire shop & also fixes aluminum fuel tanks from trucks. He said he just makes sure they're completely empty & filler caps removed & plasma cuts & TIGs all the time. I guess diesel fumes are a lot less flammable than gas. :confused:

Eighteen year old killed in highschool explosion

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