Grinding a point on 5/8" hot roll rod. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Beefy 4hp belt grinder with 36 grit cubitron belt.
    Rig up something to spin the rod against the belt, ie cordless drill with spring loaded female ”receptable”

    5 seconds to grind and 5 seconds to load next bar.

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  3. #22
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    Pounding into the ground A point may help steer around small stones but do little when it smacks a larger rock..pointed end won't push in much better that a blunt end...IMHO

    Guess i would try a prototype in a few areas to see the plan is sound.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Pounding into the ground A point may help steer around small stones but do little when it smacks a larger rock..pointed end won't push in much better that a blunt end...IMHO

    Guess i would try a prototype in a few areas to see the plan is sound.
    Does not need to be pointy.

    Google ground rods as they are 5/8 OD by 8 ft long and pounded in.

    The driven end is usually only cut corners or somewhat rounded and seldom pointed.

    Soil type and how driven matter some as well.

    Best driver we found is a demolition gun which is an air chizel size of large drill motor with a flat ended bit.

    Zips them in fast and essy.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    The rods will be driven into the ground to hold the base plate at proper grade, they will then pour concrete around them, these are the footing base plates for a tank farm at a couple of my asphalt plants.
    When the customer asks for pointed rods, they get pointed rods, right or wrong, its their call.

    Matti J. I need a belt grinder like that, 5 seconds would be amazing.

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    The rods will be driven into the ground to hold the base plate at proper grade, they will then pour concrete around them, these are the footing base plates for a tank farm at a couple of my asphalt plants.
    When the customer asks for pointed rods, they get pointed rods, right or wrong, its their call.

    Matti J. I need a belt grinder like that, 5 seconds would be amazing.
    That could be issue as the rod is in contact with soil and will allow rust to start.

    Supports for rebar are chunks of concrete with wire in it so only concrete touches dirt.

    Be sure you have copy of building engineer drawing showing this.

    The GC doing the job may be coming up with their way of doing things

    If not in the approved drawing and a failure down the road caused by defect it could be issue.

    This is not an ornament but rather structural for a chemical plant so CYA is highly suggested.

    Drawing may require specific material if in direct contact with dirt.

    Usually requires a footing hole with supports cast in but bot contacting dirt.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    Matti J. I need a belt grinder like that, 5 seconds would be amazing.
    Good coarse belt on 4-5hp belt grinder removes stupid amount of material if you are used to thinking in bench grinder speeds.
    I wouldn't want to live without one if "fabrication" is what you do.

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  13. #27
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    I have a Kalamazoo 1 hp belt sander its a 4" x 24, I use this for chamfering and deburring.

    Tony, thanks for your concern about the soil and rust, I'm just supplying what they asked for, the company doing the footings are responsible for what they spec out, so this is totally out of my hands.

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    Why does the point have to be conical, on center? Could you just cut the bars at, say, a 60° angle at the tip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beege View Post
    Why does the point have to be conical, on center? Could you just cut the bars at, say, a 60° angle at the tip?
    "Too late now", but a "balanced" chisel-point, say four sided, and not necessarily 100% to a "point" wudda done just as well if he had been given the option.

    Dunno how fast a blacksmith with a power-hammer could do nearly 600 such, "cold working", but a SERIOUS belt-grinder seems hard to beat, even if Mattij's figures were to be found 100% optimistic, time-wise. And I don't think they are.

    As to Tony's points in re soil contact and rust-way?

    I suspect these are "engineered" to be ephemeral, contribute nada, hence don't HAVE to survive once the concrete has set.

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    Cold-heading, in theory, for a regular job.

    Holo-Krome(R) Cold Forming | Fastenal

    Up to 7/8” diameter.

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    problem when the steel rust it expands and cracks the concrete.
    some places are actually using stainless rebar on things like bridges.
    but that has nothing to do with how to make pointy bars quick.

    big grinder/sander and just spin em just like sharpening your tig tungsten

    it's an idiot design and application but that's not your problem

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    I work with a lot of 5/8" rod, have for 30 years. Sanding a real point on it is possible, but sure not my preferred method. We would forge em, faster and cheaper than sanding. Turning em on a lathe, unless you have a cnc lathe with barfeed, is way slower than either. fussier, too.
    my guess is that if the OP had a 75,000$ CNC lathe, he wouldnt be bidding jobs like this.
    Hand chucking, hand cranking on a 1000 dollar lathe is slow- certainly not a 2 minute per piece job.

    propane forge, power hammer. under a minute each.

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    Warner Swasey #3 or equivalent is the only lathe I would consider doing it on, short of CNC bar fed or forging.

    You might call Ron Bishop. He won't want them, but he might know someone who does.

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    Honestly a couple of hp lathe and IMHO its sub 1 minute each. Its only 5/16" each side and normally you don't want to take em to a sharp point more like a circa 1/8" flat and say 1" long of taper. Good tool and for a job like this thats one pass. Use to reliably do 1 a minute nothing more than a std 3 jaw chuck. Simple adaptor - plug in far end of spindle to keep em aligned and away you go. Over here its a typical kinda apprentice job.

    Grinding is one other option, but thats a fair bit of metal and a fair cost in abrasive

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  23. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    "Too late now", but a "balanced" chisel-point, say four sided, and not necessarily 100% to a "point" wudda done just as well if he had been given the option.

    Dunno how fast a blacksmith with a power-hammer could do nearly 600 such, "cold working", but a SERIOUS belt-grinder seems hard to beat, even if Mattij's figures were to be found 100% optimistic, time-wise. And I don't think they are.

    As to Tony's points in re soil contact and rust-way?

    I suspect these are "engineered" to be ephemeral, contribute nada, hence don't HAVE to survive once the concrete has set.
    We do not care about rust...

    The op stated the flat plate is the support for a tank if we read it correctly.

    Tank that holds chemicals is somewhat critical and having it outside and in contact with weather and soil is huge flags that warrant minimal followup.

    You should have been provided a drawing that had some engineers name on it and there should be clear call outs for materials and other details and that should be good.

    If a sheet of paper with a general sketch and rough materials called out combined with knowing what it is for one should be aware of how the materials used may or may not be suitable.

    If they have proper engineering and you have proper documentation then likely okay but working off of a bar napkin then you need to follow up for cya.

    If something goes south the EPA goes after everyone.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    We do not care about rust...
    .
    .
    If something goes south the EPA goes after everyone.
    Could was.

    But one of the funny things about...

    asphalt plants
    .. is that by design or intention, asphalt makes a pretty fair defense against rust, the usual challenge not of getting a coating onto everything, but trying to see that it does NOT.


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    I'd mount a piece of pipe, with an id big enough for the rods to pass through after shearing, to a belt grinder. Mount the pipe at whatever angle you want the point to be, and then shove the rods through the pipe and spin 'til you have a point.

    I'd make a socket with a conical....interior or whatever you want to call it.....and mount it in a cordless drill to spin the rods with. Just slip the conical driver over the end of the rod and spin it by applying pressure to the rod. That way you don't have to chuck each rod into the drill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HOMESTEAD View Post
    I'd mount a piece of pipe, with an id big enough for the rods to pass through after shearing, to a belt grinder. Mount the pipe at whatever angle you want the point to be, and then shove the rods through the pipe and spin 'til you have a point.

    I'd make a socket with a conical....interior or whatever you want to call it.....and mount it in a cordless drill to spin the rods with. Just slip the conical driver over the end of the rod and spin it by applying pressure to the rod. That way you don't have to chuck each rod into the drill.
    My thinking exactly. Except I offered the female "socket" because cordless drills with 5/8" chuck are not exactly common

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    Default OT: Cordless vs Corded tools

    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    My thinking exactly. Except I offered the female "socket" because cordless drills with 5/8" chuck are not exactly common
    OT, but...

    Not sure why everyone jumps onto "cordless" tools at every turn in the footpath of late.

    Handy, they certainly can be, but probably 3/4 - or better - of my "hand" power tools are still corded, drill motors and angle-grinders most of all, and 5/8" chuck among those.

    Trade-off between often bulky battery packs that need swap-out and charging, vs cords that aren't really all that big a deal to manage in "most" situations, anyway.

    2CW

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  30. #40
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    ^ Spend some of thoes millions and get some 18V lithium ones, either makita, metabo bosch and then tell us how great your corded ones were!

    Tripping on a power coard could be enough to brake a hip in a poor old chap of your age :-P


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