Horizontal bending machines

Are there any members that are using horizontal benders like this machine?

Bendhor 30 Horizontal Bending Unit - YouTube

Of the course they are very commonly used overseas but not to common here in the U.S.
I am interested in on for folding flat bar mostly or making box frames that can't be formed using a vertical press brake.

Thanks.

Tom

I dont own one right now, but its on my list of machines I want to buy, assuming I get work to pay for it.

I do some very similar bending on the hossfeld- in fact, there are two different die setups for the hossfeld that do exactly what is shown in that video.

I have a machine I bought from Comeq- not a horizontal bender- and can say they were honest and fair to deal with, and have been good about stocking parts and helping me over the phone if needed.

That said, I would also look at the competition.

I have been considering one of these- "Carell Steel Plate Rolling and Angle Rolling, Bending Machines"

but I am also thinking about one of these- I own a big hebo machine, and have seen this unit in action at the US importer, and it is pretty nice as well.
USA Hebo

there are also these-

"Carell Steel Plate Rolling and Angle Rolling, Bending Machines"

Thanks Ries.

Here's the Taiwanese version Hydraulic Bending Machine - HBM Series - SUNRISE Fluid Power Inc.

There is a company that sells another version of this, probably also Taiwan. Or you could make your own version, I have seen one or two on ebay that didnt look to badly made.

Charles


These used to be sold through Van Sant Enterprises but it is not in the catalog now...

Horizontal bending

Thanks Charles!

Yes, thank you Charles for that Pix.

It truly is worth 10000 words.

I always wondered how this version worked with no cylinder
behind it obstructing it.

Bending presses - Products - Simasv

Now to dig out that large cylinder I've been saving.....

Yea I was saving that photo for myself also, I will get around to it one of these days or when I cant wait any longer. If you look carefully it can be rotated to work vertically also which could be helpful.

Charles

Charles,

VanSant played like they never carried it.I emailed that photo to them. The guy I spoke with may have been quite young too. He referred me to the STIERLI - BIEGER brand from Switzerland.

TFPace said:

Charles,

VanSant played like they never carried it.I emailed that photo to them. The guy I spoke with may have been quite young too. He referred me to the STIERLI - BIEGER brand from Switzerland.

Click to expand...

Sorry if you were misled Pace, but I did list both of them on my first post. The photo was never sold by Vansant, only the Stierli as you found out. I should have separated them more clearly. I dont know if the photo I have is a homemade one or sold through someone else.

Charles

Thank you again Charles. No worries

JD2 is making one. not much tooling listed though:

HP-100 Horizontal Press

Those units looks like an overpriced log splitters! Those machines could EASILY be made in a day or so with the correct hydraulic components. The dies, however, like all dies, would take some time to make. The machine looks simple and straight forward. I will say that the stationary die being in single shear would have to be super stout to avoid deflection.
In the intitial video posted, that guy is using a square and you can tell, visually, that that box he bent up is NOT parallel. He could have simply measured the end of the two legs but he didn't because it wasnt! Bsides, there will always be "spring back" in a bend like this. You need to be able to bend PAST the actual measurement to compensate for the springback. Not sure what these machines cost but my guess is they are a rip off.

I say find a used log splitter and make a table for it. Or, if you don't like the noise of the gasoline motor, build an electric motor adaptor and you're done. Obviously I am oversimplifying but you get the point. VERY easy and doable by anyone on this site!

jackalope said:

I will say that the stationary die being in single shear would have to be super stout to avoid deflection.

Click to expand...

Super stout is a nice polite way of phrasing it .
The one bender that is being made here in the USA and is mentioned in this thread has a deflection issue. And at $12,500.00 you'd expect zero deflection. The shop built machine that Charles posted a picture of is very light duty when compared to the Italian, Swiss or Taiwanese machines IMO.

What I am finding is that I'm looking at $19K for a 45T and $29K for the 80T machine. The are the Taiwanese machines. I'm still awaiting pricing on the European machines.

Finding used machines here in the USA is not happening.

You could certainly make one yourself- but super stout is right. I have a Hebo twister, and have inspected the Hebo bender- and the table top is made from probably about 1 1/2" thick plate, the frame below is very stout, and the parts that are moving are WAAY more than log splitter dimensions. And the Hebo is a pretty light weight bender- maybe 600lbs. The taiwan machines you link to weigh close to a ton, and I would guess the Italian ones are similar.

Plus, you are looking at 45 ton and 80 ton hydraulics. A 40 ton logsplitter at Northern Sales, which is kind of the Harbor Freight for the backwoods set, will run you $6200. Thats without a table, with no rigidity in terms of die alignment, and no machining to allow for interchangeable dies. Plus, of course, no computer to program the stroke. All the Euro machines are PLC run at the least, and can be programmed to do all kinds of stuff. Never seen a programmable log splitter.

Sometimes things that look alike arent exactly alike.

I own both an Eagle machine (a 3 roll section roll from BPR in Italy) a Hebo machine, and can tell you that the way those machines are built, and the way horizontal benders would be built from either company, are, as my kids would say, HellaStout.
Yes, Euro machines are expensive. But you can run em for years, in a shop environment, and they will still work. Spare parts are available.
If you are doing production, and want employees to run em, they tend to be worth it.

Most of the machines linked to above- the ones Eagle, Comeq, and Hebo sell- have a wide variety of attachments already made for them, and the engineering and testing has already been done- they have already figured out how big sections need to be, what size bolts to use, and so on.

For hobby types, with more time than money, sure, hot rod a log splitter.

If you wanna make money on one, buy a real one.

Can I ask what the benefit of this machine is over a press brake or the like? I understand the is literally a HUGE difference in size, but what are you wanting it to do or perform that the other already made machines cannot do?

And Ries, there is NO way in hell you need that tonage to bend 1/4" plate three inches tall. I'm no engineer but real world experience tells me that anyone should be able to make a machine capable of doing the above (video) in short order without having mega ton hydraulic units. Yes, you would absolutely need a solid and massive platform but the mechanics are straight forward. I don't want to get into an argument over this but I think you know this is not a high end CNC bender in any respect. I will go back to my initial comments about the single shear concern. It would be the one weakness when you put that kind of leverage at the top, somethinghas to give.
Neat compact machine, but there is no way in hell a machine like this warrants the price they are asking.

p.s. I did like the comment about "hot rodding a log splitter" though. That was funny

Grant

Grant,

A press break gets in the way when bending things close to parallel so you need something that wont get in the way. What would you want to bend with it, well you can watch some of the videos, or if you dont need one now, dont worry about it. Seriously, they are pretty nice to have if you need to bend handles hinges or other flat bar material. Just a easier way than doing it by hand, not absolutely necessary for most folks but nice to have anyway.

Charles

Basically, these machines are modern versions of the old Bulldozer bender.
The differences between one of these and a press brake are several- a press brake is designed to bend flat sheet, so its designed to handle big sheets the easiest way- flat.
A Bulldozer is horizontal, so long things dont fall out of it, and is usually open throat. And these bulldozer machines are able to take a wide variety of tooling- if you look at some of the setups on the above links, there is dedicated tooling for radiuses much larger than a press brake, which is essentially a single point bend, can do. Plus, scrolls, round bar, multiple curves in one bend, and lots more. One push U bends, as opposed to two bends to get the same result. Railing pickets that are 2 feet long, and have in them, all done in one bend, curves, sharp angles, reverse bends, and so on. Hooks, Loops, and other odd shapes. Special tooling for angle, or channel, or hex, or square bar.

I would agree, one bend in 1/4" x 3" bar doesnt need 40 tons. But a two foot long profile in 3/4" square bar, all in one push, probably does. Another poster right now wants to bend S hooks in 1 1/4" round bar- a machine like this would do it.

Its good for some things, not as good for others.

Me, I like to have 3 or 4 ways of doing every job, because I inevitably come up with oddball materials, strange shapes, and unusual needs. I have angle rolls, plate rolls, hand benders, hydraulic presses, a power hammer, and various other means of bending things, and one of these would supplement what I have, and give me more options.

But certainly, not everybody needs one.

There is still a heckuva lot you can do with a hossfeld, that, fully tooled, brand new from the factory, is under 3 grand.

Here's an "old school" Bulldozer that Ries is referring to. Williams White Company Bulldozer 100 Ton Horizontal Hydraulic Press | eBay

Here is a real old school buldozer. Makes the WW look like a toy: Shorpy Historical Photo Archive :: The Blacksmiths: 1904
Smaller version here:The Blacksmiths: 1904 | Shorpy Historical Photo Archive
Rob

jackalope said:

Can I ask what the benefit of this machine is over a press brake or the like? I understand the is literally a HUGE difference in size, but what are you wanting it to do or perform that the other already made machines cannot do?

And Ries, there is NO way in hell you need that tonage to bend 1/4" plate three inches tall. I'm no engineer but real world experience tells me that anyone should be able to make a machine capable of doing the above (video) in short order without having mega ton hydraulic units. Yes, you would absolutely need a solid and massive platform but the mechanics are straight forward. I don't want to get into an argument over this but I think you know this is not a high end CNC bender in any respect. I will go back to my initial comments about the single shear concern. It would be the one weakness when you put that kind of leverage at the top, somethinghas to give.
Neat compact machine, but there is no way in hell a machine like this warrants the price they are asking.

p.s. I did like the comment about "hot rodding a log splitter" though. That was funny

Grant

Click to expand...

Not to post it again....but it took me maybe 2 days to cobble this, and yes, 1/4" plate 6" wide.


Yes, I add stock stops as needed, and yes a cheapo $10 dial indicator
for the down stroke is nice. But still it's more of a blacksmithing tool.

It is extremely handy to snap on the 1/2 hp pump, and mash up a hook, or
bracket. 2nd foto shows a more elaborate cobbled set-up, ultilising "c" clamps
and spacer blocks.

But Reis has a very valid point, not much accuracy, and this would never fly in a shop
with paid employees.