Hydraulic press brake stall on startup
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    Default Hydraulic press brake stall on startup

    Hello, I just got a Guifil PE6-16 press brake and I'm having trouble getting it started. It seems to stall and pop the breaker when I try to start the motor. Would there be an easy fix to this if anyone with experience would know?

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    Did you wire the phases up correctly? Pump might be trying to spin in wrong direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringleboy26 View Post
    Did you wire the phases up correctly? Pump might be trying to spin in wrong direction.
    Looked at that and even reversed to see, no change. The motor spins freely but when I switch it on it seems to lock in place.

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    If the motor wont turn under power at all,you either got a short ,or a phase reversal.Do other 3ph motors work on the same supply?....Have you meggered the motor for faults?The switchgear for faults?Time to get an electrician?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    If the motor wont turn under power at all,you either got a short ,or a phase reversal.Do other 3ph motors work on the same supply?....Have you meggered the motor for faults?The switchgear for faults?Time to get an electrician?
    It's a single phase, placard says 220/440 and it came with a 250V 20A plug. Been looking for any documentation I can find but haven't had any luck on the web so far. Have to see if work has anything.

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    I have a similar (but larger) brake. If it's like mine the motor circuit and back gauge and ram height controller are on totally separate circuits. My particular brake is an Adira but to my knowledge they are very similar if not the same.

    If it is a single phase motor and spins freely but fails to start you should check the start capacitors and centrifugal switch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strostkovy View Post
    I have a similar (but larger) brake. If it's like mine the motor circuit and back gauge and ram height controller are on totally separate circuits. My particular brake is an Adira but to my knowledge they are very similar if not the same.

    If it is a single phase motor and spins freely but fails to start you should check the start capacitors and centrifugal switch.
    I'll take a look at those thanks for the suggestion. I have a fair bit of learning to do, I don't have any experience with machines like this so I was hoping there would be some kind of documentation out there. It looks like two Allen-Bradley relays were replaced as well as what looks like a contactor or beefy relay, maybe they were trying to troubleshoot? I hope it won't take too much to figure out what's wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer322 View Post
    I'll take a look at those thanks for the suggestion. I have a fair bit of learning to do, I don't have any experience with machines like this so I was hoping there would be some kind of documentation out there. It looks like two Allen-Bradley relays were replaced as well as what looks like a contactor or beefy relay, maybe they were trying to troubleshoot? I hope it won't take too much to figure out what's wrong.
    Picture will help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strostkovy View Post
    Picture will help.
    Here is a picture of the panel, what was replaced, and the motor, thanks for taking a look.

    guifil.jpg panel.jpg motor_placard.jpg replaced_spare.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails motor_placard.jpg  

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    I uploaded a video of what it's doing. This is in my shop that's fed from the house with a 70A MHF. Voltage is 238.4 at the plug. It almost seems like it's not getting enough power to kick over or something but it should have plenty. My other 240V motors kick on fine without so much as a flicker of the lights.

    Guifil Motor Stall

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    What valves does it have, and at what rpm would you guess it gets up to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strostkovy View Post
    What valves does it have, and at what rpm would you guess it gets up to?
    I was thinking it might be a closed valve or something also but these are the only valves/controls I've seen. I have no idea what RPM it gets up to but the plaque says 1704.


    img_20190701_122649.jpg
    img_20190701_122657.jpg

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    There should be a pressure relief at the pump.
    The pump should be able to run, singing on the relief valve continuously, regardless of what the downstream valves are doing.

    Could the overloads be set too low ?

    or has the main relief been "updated" by someone cranking it way up ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    There should be a pressure relief at the pump.
    The pump should be able to run, singing on the relief valve continuously, regardless of what the downstream valves are doing.

    Could the overloads be set too low ?

    or has the main relief been "updated" by someone cranking it way up ?
    Interesting, thanks for the input, I'm working on getting in there and seeing what I can see. Just talked to our shop lead and he assured me it was working in manual mode just before the auction, apparently they were having trouble getting the CNC programmed correctly though. He managed to find the key at least so I don't need to hot wire it anymore lol.

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    Not sure about single phase 220/440. That would describe a motor that could run on single phase 440 volts?

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    Looking at blue circle. Do I see L1, L2, L3 and ground at the big relay? 3 phase if so.

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    The nameplate amperage and efficiency correspond to 4.5 HP if single phase or 7.75 HP if three phase.

    The next step is to remove the cover on the motor electrical box. If it is single phase there will be several capacitors (large cylindrical components). Take these capacitors to a local motor shop and get them checked. In some cases they can hold a charge so be sure to shut off the machine and short out the capacitor terminals with a screwdriver. With the capacitors removed, use an ohm meter to measure the resistance from each capacitor terminal to any of the line terminals at the motor. You should read fairly low resistance in all cases. If not, the centrifugal switch is stuck open.

    You said you talked to the shop lead. Did you ask him what voltage and how many phases they were running it on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    Looking at blue circle. Do I see L1, L2, L3 and ground at the big relay? 3 phase if so.
    I think I can also see on the motor data plate it says 3~ in the top left corner.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    So, I'm an idiot. This is a 3 phase motor.

    Have I damaged it by doing this, also what are my options for running this in my single phase shop?

    Can the motor be replaced, or is this still too much press brake?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer322 View Post
    It's a single phase, placard says 220/440 and it came with a 250V 20A plug. Been looking for any documentation I can find but haven't had any luck on the web so far. Have to see if work has anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by farmboy_sam View Post
    I think I can also see on the motor data plate it says 3~ in the top left corner.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer322 View Post
    So, I'm an idiot. This is a 3 phase motor.

    Have I damaged it by doing this, also what are my options for running this in my single phase shop?

    Can the motor be replaced, or is this still too much press brake?
    Oopsie.

    You need to hire, as in, pay for a real electrician.

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