Low RPM Metal Miter Saw?

BAT27 · May 30, 2017

Hey guys. New guy here.
I've been looking for a low rpm dry cut metal saw for ages now. Plenty of dry cut saws out there but I need the head to pivot instead of the jaws/fence.
Most of the dry blades are in the 1400-1800 rpm range so I'm trying to hit that. I've looked everywhere including foreign brands and I just can't find one. Any help would be super appreciated!

Spyderedge · May 30, 2017

Have you looked at cold saws?

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BAT27 · May 30, 2017

Spyderedge said:
Have you looked at cold saws?

Yeah we actually have one but the mess is herrendous and we're trying to consolodate our aluminum saw and steel saw by switching the blades as needed vs. having two huge spaces for different material cutting. We don't cut much steel anymore and the cold saw with runoffs just take up too much space.

Our makita dry saw cuts great but making angled cuts is a nightmare because it requires angling a 12' stick of tubing vs. rotating the saw itself.

adama · May 30, 2017

Mount the saw on a turn table?

Spyderedge · May 30, 2017

Maybe use a standard miter saw for the aluminum parts? Ive heard of people using it with success, and it's not too far off of a dry cut saw. Try and find one that doesn't run too fast.

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Bondo · May 31, 2017

Spyderedge said:
Maybe use a standard miter saw for the aluminum parts? Ive heard of people using it with success, and it's not too far off of a dry cut saw. Try and find one that doesn't run too fast.

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We do this all the time. I just did a job where we got over 2000 cuts with a standard carbide tip blade. The nice thing is that lithe cuts are perfect with no prep.

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Spyderedge · May 31, 2017

Bondo said:
We do this all the time. I just did a job where we got over 2000 cuts with a standard carbide tip blade. The nice thing is that lithe cuts are perfect with no prep.

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You also have a huge selection of kerfs and hook angles. For instance, you could use a positive hook angle for big blocks, and a negative hook blade (for use in radial arm saws) round bars and shapes extrusions like "K" rail. A lot cheaper, too.

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BAT27 · Jun 2, 2017

Spyderedge said:
Maybe use a standard miter saw for the aluminum parts? Ive heard of people using it with success, and it's not too far off of a dry cut saw. Try and find one that doesn't run too fast.

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That is what we're doing now. We have a 3400 RPM omga for cutting aluminum and a cold saw for steel. The problem is each takes up 12' in both directions.

We also have a Tigerstop on the aluminum saw which makes it much more accurate and efficient to use and I'd rather use it as much as possible.

We had an 1800 RPM ferrous metal blade bored out to fit the omga but the RPMs are twice what the blade is made for and it basically obliterates the blade after a couple dozen cuts. It's crazy to me that no one on this planet makes a miter saw with variable RPMs.

guest · Jun 2, 2017

BAT27 said:
...We had an 1800 RPM ferrous metal blade bored out to fit the omga but the RPMs are twice what the blade is made for and it basically obliterates the blade after a couple dozen cuts. It's crazy to me that no one on this planet makes a miter saw with variable RPMs.

Can you put a VFD on it?

Spyderedge · Jun 3, 2017

guest said:
Can you put a VFD on it?

If it's a brushed motor (universal) you don't need a VFD, only voltage regulation. Although, a VFD might work a variac is cheaper.

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Ries · Jun 3, 2017

I am dubious that somehow just slowing down the motor on a lightweight miter saw for aluminum will magically make it cut steel well.
The basic design of a high speed saw, like, say, a 3200 rpm OMGA, is different from a 40 rpm Haberle.
The aluminum saws are lightweight- aluminum and plastic construction, and a really good one, like the 4000 dollar OMGA's, weighs a mighty 220lbs.
Meanwhile, a saw designed to cut steel, like a Haberle, is heavier in every component, with a completely different gear train to run at 22/44/88 rpm, weighs well over 600 lbs.
Thats because its components are stronger, heavier, and thicker. Its oil bath ground and hardened gear train is just not the same as the direct drive motor on the OMGA.
Slowing down an aluminum saw will reduce the torque- and, of course, the 3.5 hp of 44 rpm on the Haberle is all about torque.

Yes, you could slow down a fast saw, and then it would do a very crummy job of cutting steel.
Or you could speed up a slow saw, and destroy its gear train and speed reducer pretty quickly.

You need two saws.

BAT27 · Jun 5, 2017

Ries said:
I am dubious that somehow just slowing down the motor on a lightweight miter saw for aluminum will magically make it cut steel well.
The basic design of a high speed saw, like, say, a 3200 rpm OMGA, is different from a 40 rpm Haberle.
The aluminum saws are lightweight- aluminum and plastic construction, and a really good one, like the 4000 dollar OMGA's, weighs a mighty 220lbs.
Meanwhile, a saw designed to cut steel, like a Haberle, is heavier in every component, with a completely different gear train to run at 22/44/88 rpm, weighs well over 600 lbs.
Thats because its components are stronger, heavier, and thicker. Its oil bath ground and hardened gear train is just not the same as the direct drive motor on the OMGA.
Slowing down an aluminum saw will reduce the torque- and, of course, the 3.5 hp of 44 rpm on the Haberle is all about torque.

Yes, you could slow down a fast saw, and then it would do a very crummy job of cutting steel.
Or you could speed up a slow saw, and destroy its gear train and speed reducer pretty quickly.

You need two saws.

Or someone on this planet could simply take a dry cut low rpm saw like our makita and make it rotate 45 degrees left and right. I find it hard to believe we're the only company on the face of the earth could use a metal miter saw that functions like a wood miter saw.

DEWALT DW715 15-Amp 12-Inch Single-Bevel Compound Miter Saw - Power Miter Saws - Amazon.com

Put a metal gaurd on it. Remove a few plastic pieces. Put a low rpm motor and blade on it. Seems like a no brainer to me.

triplechip · Jun 5, 2017

A company called Jepson makes a mitering dry cut saw.
JEPSON Power: Dry Miter Cutter 941ND for steel - The versatile

Bill

rcoope · Jun 5, 2017

We have a Hyd-Mech P250 cold saw from about 2009. I don't see if on their website now. When you release the lock both the saw and the vise pivot independently on the same post, so you can set up miter cuts on long bars without hitting the wall.

fixitup · Jun 5, 2017

Cold saw.

I bought one of these last year. Cuts steel and aluminum like butter with no sparks or heat and the head rotates and tilts.Replacement blades are cheap. For $200.00 it is hard to beat.

Evolution US - RAGE3

swatkins · Jun 5, 2017

fixitup said:
I bought one of these last year. Cuts steel and aluminum like butter with no sparks or heat and the head rotates and tilts.Replacement blades are cheap. For $200.00 it is hard to beat.

Evolution US - RAGE3

So how much cutting will that 85.00 blade do and how long will a 200.00 saw hold up?

fixitup · Jun 6, 2017

The blade is actually $39.00. I have only used it for about 6 months and cut mostly aluminum extrusions and some 16 gauge steel tubing. No problems so far.

BAT27 · Jun 6, 2017

triplechip said:
A company called Jepson makes a mitering dry cut saw.
JEPSON Power: Dry Miter Cutter 941ND for steel - The versatile

Bill

That was the closest thing I've found as well. Unfortunately it's only 10" and the motor is only 13 amps which seems very underpowered to me. I watched a video of it and you could see it bog down cutting through what looked like 1.5" alumunum extrusion. They make a bigger 14" 15 amp one but of course it doesn't pivot for miters.

Ries · Jun 6, 2017

the high speed metal cutting saws, like the evolution, or the jepson, are just not industrial tools.
because high speed blades have a relatively short life cutting steel, and their only real advantage over a true low speed cold saw is cost.
They will be more expensive in a production environment, and wear out quickly.
which is why nobody makes a good
one.

The Jepson, for example, is a lightweight, low powered, cheap saw for cutting thin gaga sheet metal studs for drywallers. it weighs 42lbs...
It nominally has a 70mm capacity, but you try and cut a piece of 70mm (2 3/4" diameter) solid round bar on that saw, ONCE, much less all day, and see how you like it.

I have been on jobsites where people use those evolutions. they are handy, quick, and disposable tools.
They work ok, but are no comparison to real saws.

I have been running my 600lb Haberle in semi-production since 1992, and I bought it used.
I dont believe that the 200 dollar evolution will still be running after a year or two of real daily shop or jobsite use.

There just is no magic bullet.
You can put one of those high speed blades on a wood cutting miter saw. You will go thru several blades a year, and a new saw every couple years, if you are actually using it for production cutting of steel.
Sometimes thats the most appropriate way to go- buy cheap and use em up. I have known carpenters who have a favorite brand of sub-$500 small jobsite tablesaws, and they just keep buying more of em, knowing they will self destruct after a year or two of jobsite use.

I guess if you treat this saw like a consumable, and just factor that in, you could get away with using a $500 miter saw.

BAT27 · Jun 7, 2017

Ries said:
the high speed metal cutting saws, like the evolution, or the jepson, are just not industrial tools.
because high speed blades have a relatively short life cutting steel, and their only real advantage over a true low speed cold saw is cost.
They will be more expensive in a production environment, and wear out quickly.
which is why nobody makes a good
one.

The Jepson, for example, is a lightweight, low powered, cheap saw for cutting thin gaga sheet metal studs for drywallers. it weighs 42lbs...
It nominally has a 70mm capacity, but you try and cut a piece of 70mm (2 3/4" diameter) solid round bar on that saw, ONCE, much less all day, and see how you like it.

I have been on jobsites where people use those evolutions. they are handy, quick, and disposable tools.
They work ok, but are no comparison to real saws.

I have been running my 600lb Haberle in semi-production since 1992, and I bought it used.
I dont believe that the 200 dollar evolution will still be running after a year or two of real daily shop or jobsite use.

There just is no magic bullet.
You can put one of those high speed blades on a wood cutting miter saw. You will go thru several blades a year, and a new saw every couple years, if you are actually using it for production cutting of steel.
Sometimes thats the most appropriate way to go- buy cheap and use em up. I have known carpenters who have a favorite brand of sub-$500 small jobsite tablesaws, and they just keep buying more of em, knowing they will self destruct after a year or two of jobsite use.

I guess if you treat this saw like a consumable, and just factor that in, you could get away with using a $500 miter saw.

While I agree with most of what you said, just to clarify, the Jepson is neither high speed or an inexpensive throw away. It's 1600 RPMs and around $1200. It would have been the magic bullet if it had had a proper 15 amp motor on it.

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