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LVD vs Mitsubishi fibre laser

Epic Metal

Plastic
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Location
Medicine Hat, Canada
We are purchasing a new Mitsubishi Fibre laser, we looked at a few others and made our decision based on some of the features offered on the mits. Our LVD rep (we have a LVD shear) says we are making a mistake and will be disappointed. I thought the mits unit looked pretty well put together at Fabtech and have understood them to make a good product. Is the LVD rep just trying to sell me on their machine or are the Mitsubishi machines actually problematic?
 
Mitsubishi’s are good from what I have heard. Amadas are good if you want another option. Salvagnini’s are the top tier in my mind, the higher end ones are expensive but the production capacity of them is crazy, from hand loading to mini-towers and standard material towers to full on material cells, and robotic part unloading or full sheet unloading. The L-3’s are a standard style laser, the L-5’s are a rapid pivot A-frame machine that kind of has a C-axis for doing holes and radiuses FAST. Watching a Salvagnini L-5 run gauge metal is pretty nuts.

I have never seen an LVD run.
 
Yeah we looked at several manufacturers, Amada, Trumpf, Bystronic, Mazak, LVD, and Mitsubishi. We aren’t looking for the fastest, craziest 8 or 10kw machine rather something in the 3-4kw size to help our sheet metal side keep up (we currently run hi def plasma and waterjet) so felt that some of the offerings were overpriced for what our needs were. We thought it would be beneficial to work with a vendor we already know so came down to LVD and Mits, we decided to go with a Mitsubishi sr-f as it could accommodate cutting while have both shuttle tables out of the machine (we make our own enclosures but also modify purchased enclosures so thought this would add value for us) by simply going into box cutting in the parameters and telling the machine needed start position. Hope we made a good choice.
 
We have 3 Mits Lasers in the system right now. We did look at them all and still look at them all when we trade out a machine. We started with 2 Mazaks Lasers on an FMS and traded them out for the Mitz machines back in 2003.

Currently there is 1 4500w and 1 8000w Fiber on one feeder tower and on the other feeder we have 1 8000w Laser. We trade the machines out every 5 years and the feeders remain the same in the Mitz system.

We have had really now issues other than we have a Head Problem on the newest one put in back in February. Mitz has stood behind the head issue and replaced everything and so far so good. Look at their ABR option. It has really improved our cutting speeds on materials up to 3/8. Also eliminates the Laser Burn Edge, a thorn in every welded and painters side.

Mitz service is over the top. Not sure the same can be said for LVD. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against LVD. We have 7 of their Turret Presses and have been running LVD/Strippit Turrets since 1966. Been to the factory in Buffalo a few times. They build great machines (as far as I am concerned the best Turret Presses money can buy hands down). Our oldest LVD Strippit was installed in March of 1997 and has been running 20 hours a day since with very little down time. We are considering having it rebuilt in place currently.

Fear tactics in sales are a sure way to turn me off. Ask the LVD sales rep for the list of things that make it a mistake.
 
IMHO you want 3 test pieces with a variety of features, cut in material you supply back to back, the material needs to cross the range of what you cut and you stand there watch it and time it, material wants to be off the same sheet for each machine you test and realistic of what you cut, not some shit thats gone rusty - dragged out the bottom of the rack, this is not the place to be tight. Thats the only fair way to begin to compare things.

Mitsubishi is pretty well known world wide for there lasers, not sure i know any were with a LDV here in the uk, i do know more than a few of the Amada lasers back in the CO2 era had Mitz resonators as there beam sources.

Gotta say though some of the Fiber laser stuff i have had cut when fibers were new has been absolute shit, edges looked like the part had been chain drilled out of the sheet. Honestly could have been cut cleaner with air plasma. Thankfully they seam to have got a lot better since then. Thats why i strongly think you should be watching your cut files and samples come off the machine in person and no giving them the files ahead of time, you really want it to be a, walk on the demo floor and turn the machine on, cut the parts and turn the machine off to form a more honest picture.

Then don't let them baffle you with bullshit, because if they can not do it with your samples when your making the kinda purchase you are when buying one of these just how do you think its going to play out better when the machine hits your floor?
 
material wants to be off the same sheet

no giving them the files ahead of time
Both very important items.
Rusty or scaled material will cut like crap. Your good material and your thickness range. Pickup truck with large sheets cutting your real parts if you can.

And your files so you can see the whole process. Once loaded you need to see how easy it is to select only what you want to cut on the screen, or even rotate a part. Or even nest right at the machine. Can your files be edited to some extent right on the machine screen? I almost never do that unless it is a "1 of" project.
 
I agree bring your files and have them cut some samples of "normal' parts you plan on running or do run. Bringing your own material well go ahead if you want. Unless it is something special they are not going to bringing in "Laser Friendly" material for your demo.

All the machines have editing features either within the control by manipulating G Code or redrawing the flat or assigning a certain cutting condition to a feature. The demo should be around the machines capabilities and the options you have at your finger tips to get the parts off the machine in the least amount of time while meeting the design specifications.

All the variables of "feature control" are based on operator experience. I have 2 well seasoned veterans. One runs 3 Amada 1212 Pulsar CO2 Lasers. Old school sheet dragers. They serve their purpose well for the intended use but it is my Operator who makes the machine. I once handed him a piece of .006 Full Hard Stainless and he cut a pattern .017 dia holes on .023 centers in a perf grid .4375 x .4375 for a pre-filter. No one doing a Demo at Amada would ever try that. Since my Operator has been running Lasers since 1979 his experience extorts the capabilities of the machine.

My Operator on the Mitz Fiber side holds +.001/-.000 hole size tolerances on .060, .074 and .105 material for a certain customer (side plates for digital printers) while running lights out. Again something that would never happen in a demo simply because the person doing the demo lives in a Lab.

The Operator will make the Machine. If they struggle with a certain material or feature we have found both Amada and more so Mitz will invest the time in their Lab to find a solution. We had a job come in where the customer needed 6000 parts Lasered from 1/2 4130. The Mitz Fiber was new to us at the time and the best we could do was just under 6 minutes a part. We sent some material to Chicago, sent our Operator with it and they got the part down to a 2 minute and 20 second cycle time. My Operator came away with more knowledge to apply to other parts running through the machine. Mitz has also spent 3-4 days here at a time doing individual training recently when we hired a new Operator to run the second Fiber. Amada at times has asked us for certain cutting conditions to help another shop.

I cannot stress enough no matter what machine you purchase you will only be limited by your Operator and his Experience + his Knowledge will = his Wisdom and your productivity.

I have been in a Shop with Lasers since 1979. Investing in the Machine is easy...finding the right person to invest in to operate the machine is the hardest and most expensive thing.
 








 
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