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  1. #1
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    Default manual iron worker

    Has anyone ever used or own a manual iron worker?
    Baileigh makes one that I was thinking of getting but theres a clip on u-tube of a guy that is testing it and hes not too happy with it. Dosen't do what it claims.
    Sampson makes on too. I was thinking about mounting a hydraulic cylinder on top do the work of the handle, has any one ever done this. This would be a cheap iron worker if it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bottlecapdigger View Post
    Has anyone ever used or own a manual iron worker?
    Baileigh makes one that I was thinking of getting but theres a clip on u-tube of a guy that is testing it and hes not too happy with it. Dosen't do what it claims.
    Sampson makes on too. I was thinking about mounting a hydraulic cylinder on top do the work of the handle, has any one ever done this. This would be a cheap iron worker if it works.
    We have a p70 70 ton piranha its not fast but runs well. Its limit is shearing 1" x 6" plate 12" of 3/4 and 18" of 1/2" plate. it will punch 1"3/6 in 3/4" plate.

    Ours was $20,000 a long time ago.

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    Heres a pick of the sampson
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails le8u.jpg  

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    Default baileigh sw22

    the cost of these are around 700-800$ the baileigh are cheaper.
    20000. is a lot for a home shop. But I have been looking at the edwards 25T
    they are under 5,000.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails picture-072.jpg  

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    wish i knew who made mine. Rugged little bugger. Most I do is punch 3/8 through 3/8 or so. shears a 3 inch piece of that nicely also, never use it to bend. For refrerence, the surface plate/table that it is bolted to is about 5 feet long. (And freakin heavy, why is free so heavy)

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    The cheap ones are, of course, Chinese.
    They work, ok, but you get what you pay for.
    The two you showed are not really "ironworkers" as they dont punch- they are just shears.
    And I would bet they are both Chinese. Grizzly and Jet also sell variations.

    the better choice would be old american ones, but they are rare, as they mostly predate the second world war.

    you can buy new German ones- but they cost a lot- around $2500, I think.

    Mubea- not sure if these are still made, but they are really nice-


    Buffalo punch/shears- from the twenties or thirties, at the latest.

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    Default german type

    That looks like what I need. I like that and german made also. That must be a hole punch on the other end.
    So looking that these, why couldn't a person mount a cylinder on top to do the work of the handle.

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    You can but a hydraulic cylinder has no brains, when your pulling on the arm you have a feel for how much force is being used, so if something jams the cylinder just keeps pushing till something breaks, JM$.02W

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    In german they are called Hebelschere's.

    Hebelschere u, Hebelstanze, günstig kaufen und gratis inserieren auf willhaben.at!

    used, for 335 euros.

    here is the one I want-
    elektro-maschinen.de »

    google hebelschere, image search, and you will find tons of em used in europe.

    Glaser used to make em, they still have em on their website, but no pics.
    They have a US rep, you could ask him.
    Mubea still has a US rep as well.

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet

    Mubea Machines, Tooling and Accessories

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    i have operated several types of hydraulic presses,my own 20 ton manual jack type,and air/hydraulic and an electric/hydraulic.and one prehistoric mechanical 50 ton
    manual you can feel it when going gets tough,mechanical kind of the same,but not as much.
    air had a hydraulic pressure guage,you could see pressure climb,instantly.
    electric one had no guage,by the time you hear the pump start to work,its too late.
    if you choose to add hydraulics,add a guage.the air had a delay between strokes,made it more controllable.
    just my .02 worth.

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    dunka ! I will check them out.

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    I've got a 12 ton manual with a stack of dies ranging from under 1/8" to 2". It's a fantastic tool for popping holes in thin sheet. I used to use it all the tiem, but haven't touched it now in years. It doesn't compare with our bigger ironworkers or CNC mills.

    Handy tool but pricy for a good one.

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    I get overly picky about this stuff- But-

    A PUNCH punches holes in metal.

    A SHEAR cuts metal.

    An IRONWORKER has BOTH a punch and a shear on it, and, usually, an angle shear and a rod shear as well, and often a notcher.

    An ironworker can be manual, mechanical, or hydraulic. But if it doesnt at least punch and shear, its not an ironworker.
    And a hydraulic press, while you can put different tooling in it, is not an ironworker either.

  14. Likes Mark McGrath liked this post
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    The phrase "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet consectetuer" appears in Microsoft Word online Help. This phrase has the appearance of an intelligent Latin idiom. Actually, it is nonsense.


    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/114222

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    [QUOTE.
    20000. is a lot for a home shop. But I have been looking at the edwards 25T
    they are under 5,000.[/QUOTE]

    I have an Edwards 25 ton.
    It is a quality piece of equipment and it runs on a 20 amp single phase 220 volt circuit. It only weighs 900 pounds and moves fairly easy with a couple of floor jacks or a pallet jack. All in all, it is fairly practical for a home shop.

    It will punch a one inch hole in 5/16 inch steel and it will get your attention when it pops through. Most of my use is in 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick steel and aluminum. Last year I used it to punch 1000 11/16 inch square holes in the channel iron runners for a 250 foot long iron fence. With a couple of roller stands and a friend to help keep the 20 foot lengths square, we knocked out a square hole about every 5 seconds.

    I have most of the accessories and they all work as advertised. The limitation on the punch end is that it only has 5 inches of throat so you can punch holes mostly on the edges. The travel is only one inch. I make my own dies for forming and if pressing anything deep, a second or third pass with riser blocks is required.

    With only two stations and one of them being the punch end, you will be changing accessories a lot. Use the shear to cut some plate (6 inch x 1/4 inch max), replace the shear with the nibbler to cut it to shape, go to the other end to punch it, install the press brake, bend it. The accessories change quickly, 5 minutes for most, 10 for the nibbler that needs to be aligned very accurately. The Nibbler is heavy. Heavy enough that you will think that you should be a few years younger when you lift it.
    You will need to make squaring arms for the brake and shear or live with skewed cuts and bends until you do.
    One of the advantages of the Edwards over some other brands is that the brake is open ended. It can be impossible to remove items with multiple bends from closed end brakes. The punch is also open ended which means that you can at least punch the first 5 inches in on big items.
    The nut on the punch dies is rather large which means that you can only get within 1-1/4 of the upstanding leg if you are punching angle iron.
    If you are making 1/4 inch thick brackets, this is a wonderful machine to own.
    Dennis

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikosmd View Post
    wish i knew who made mine. Rugged little bugger. Most I do is punch 3/8 through 3/8 or so. shears a 3 inch piece of that nicely also, never use it to bend. For refrerence, the surface plate/table that it is bolted to is about 5 feet long. (And freakin heavy, why is free so heavy)

    I'm 99% sure yours was made by J.F. Kidder

    I had a smaller one awhile back that I bought (and then sold). Mine was apparently called "The little blacksmith".

    -James

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    Thanks for the info on the edwards. Good to get some reviews on it.This might be the better way to go. The punch sure would be good to have also. I have been watching for a good used 25T but not real seriously yet. I have come across the bigger ones but never the smaller 25T. What are some other ones to consider? smaller ones that is,
    220V also. thanks

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    I think the one of the best small ironworkers is the Mubea BF-10.
    I have seen em go as cheap as 2 grand, and they are much more machine for the money than the Edwards.
    Here is a real clean one at a dealer price-
    Mubea BF 10 Iron Worker

    There are also nice small Peddinghaus ironworkers- the older, cheaper ones are mechanical, but very well built machines.

    Both of these are German, and some of the best ironworkers.

    Ficeps, from Italy, are also really nice machines, and often cheaper than they should be, because of lack of name familiarity.

    Harder to find, but very good, are the american made Wysongs, like this cute little vertical model-
    WYSONG Ironworkers Used - MachineTools.com

    Buffalo's are usually cheap, an ancient but totally bulletproof design that hasnt changed much in 80 years or so. The small one is a number 0.
    like this-
    Buffalo 0 Ironworkers Used - MachineTools.com


    Geka's, from Spain, are, I think, the best modern hydraulic machines, and they make two really nice small ones- but they are NOT cheap.
    http://www.comeq.com/Literature/GekaMiniMicroCat.pdf


    I would rate the scotchman, and Edwards, at the bottom of the heap, myself- workable, but nowhere near as well designed or made as the Mubea, Peddinghaus, Geka, Ficep, or other modern euro machines, or the old standard Buffalo, Wysong, Pirannha, Hill Acme, or other big heavy industrial american machines.

    I have seen Scotchman's completely wear out in a few years of hard use, while it is not at all unusual to come across 50 year old Peddis and Mubeas still being used daily in heavy industrial situations.

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    wow thank you for the info, sorry for the sidetrack. I have been searching for years for a name. It is hard to make out the info on the side. Now with a name I will take a closer look.

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    As already noted, this does look like the original Kidder "Little Blacksmith." I have one like it, a model 1. I haven't yet gotten around to finding out if punches are still made for it. Kidder is still in existence, still making punches, but they've changed a good deal over the years.


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