Miller 212 or 250

jarhead jim · Apr 2, 2012

Hey guys,

I'm thinking of getting a miller welder but am sitting on the fence about which one I want. On the info page the 212 states it will weld 3/8" thick metal. Is this the depth of one pass? I used a 250 for years and I welded ripper teeth mounts on bull dozers with this but did 3 passes. Not sure how many passes a 212 would have taken. Most of my welding will be 1/2" at the most, steel. I have a 140 amp for the lighter metal. What do you guys suggest?

Thanks,

Jim

alexf · Apr 2, 2012

jarhead jim said:
Hey guys,

I'm thinking of getting a miller welder but am sitting on the fence about which one I want. On the info page the 212 states it will weld 3/8" thick metal. Is this the depth of one pass? I used a 250 for years and I welded ripper teeth mounts on bull dozers with this but did 3 passes. Not sure how many passes a 212 would have taken. Most of my welding will be 1/2" at the most, steel. I have a 140 amp for the lighter metal. What do you guys suggest?

Thanks,

Jim

Buy the 250.If you are doing 1/2" mostly you will find the 212 a bit lacking especially if you want to run any dual shield. I have the 212 and its a great machine but when running thicker plate jobs if at all frequently you will do much better with more power.

Heavey Metal · Apr 2, 2012

I dont think the 250 is big enough

you need something that will spray .045 hardwire

Ohio_Ford_Farm · Apr 2, 2012

alexf said:
Buy the 250.If you are doing 1/2" mostly you will find the 212 a bit lacking especially if you want to run any dual shield. I have the 212 and its a great machine but when running thicker plate jobs if at all frequently you will do much better with more power.

I agree as well... As a side note the new machines ( just looked at one last week at the welding shop ) is now a 252. If you can swing it you will be happier with the 250 / 252 over the 212.

Ciszewski · Apr 2, 2012

Hello Jarhead jim
You'll be able to weld 1/2" with a 252, but not all day long. If you plan on doing that, you better get yourself something bigger. That 252 will be running full out & will not last long. It's better to buy a bigger machine & run it at 75%, it'll last a lot longer. It's all about duty cycle.

jarhead jim · Apr 4, 2012

Thanks for the replies/suggestions fellas!

Jim

kustomizingkid · Apr 4, 2012

Definitely get a bigger welder for 1/2"... once you have switched from short arc to spray you never want to go back.

jamie76x · Apr 6, 2012

If you are set on a nice small machine for light stuff, Don't mess around... Get the 350p. This will open doors for you, it will run the hard facing wire, weld stainless, aluminum and anythign else you throw at it and it will weld the heavy stuff.

jamie76x · Apr 6, 2012

I think spray sucks ass, Unless your using a metal core or flux core type wire. If you are using a hard wire short arch is and always will be the better way.

kustomizingkid said:
Definitely get a bigger welder for 1/2"... once you have switched from short arc to spray you never want to go back.

kustomizingkid · Apr 6, 2012

I guess I just assume anyone doing heavy fab would be spraying dual sheild...

Donn · Apr 6, 2012

Ciszewski said:
Hello Jarhead jim
You'll be able to weld 1/2" with a 252, but not all day long. If you plan on doing that, you better get yourself something bigger. That 252 will be running full out & will not last long. It's better to buy a bigger machine & run it at 75%, it'll last a lot longer. It's all about duty cycle.

I bought a 250X new in 2001. I have used it to produce hundreds of excavator thumbs and similar equipment welding 3/8'' up to 1''. It has never even hiccuped.
And I run it all day, I also use an XMt 304 and the difference is not that great. Sometimes I spray .035 with 95/5% gas. .045 is a little heavy for the 250, yielding less flow out. I would recommend the 250 anyday for 1/2'' If buying new today, I would like pulsed mig as in the 350P , but unfortunately I don't believe Miller offers one for a 250. I haven't tried the optima pulser but I believe the tech has improved since that was released.
Just my two cents.

alexf · Apr 6, 2012

Heavey Metal said:
I dont think the 250 is big enough

you need something that will spray .045 hardwire

It's interesting how everyone has their own way of doing it. I agree that running an even bigger machine is better considering the thickness of plate you are welding but although I do not have the Miller 250 I do have the Lincoln equivalent which I use fairly frequently with 0.052 dual shield and it runs great. You would need to change the gun to something more substantial if you are doing long welds. The last big job I did with it was some 14' masts made from 1/2" plate.Each mast had 3 welds 14' long and 3 passes each then the whole thing was welded to a 1" base plate. 4 masts total with not a hiccup from the machine.I don't care which brand of machine you prefer as they are all the same to me but the arguments are entertaining.
Good luck

rkcarguy · Apr 6, 2012

The more power the better you can weld, faster....and the capacity to weld a variety of metal thicknesses.
Get the most machine you can afford and have the amperage to feed.
We run all Miller welders.

Here's our "motto":

1/4" thick or less= Miller 250 with .035 MIG wire.

3/8"-1/2" thick= Miller 300/350 with .045 dual shield

1/2" on up= .060 dual shield.

Once you go to dual shield on your larger/thicker welds you'll never want to go back to MIG. Set up right it's like laying a metal bead of blue-silver caulk instead of the puddle pattern common with mig.
Using a smaller machine and wire on larger weldments will run the machine hard, and you have to run very hot and with quite a bit of splatter to get good penetration and a so-so looking weld will result. The "hiss" when running dual shield along with little to no splatter/berries means you're dialed in.
Ultimately the amount of work you do and budget will decide, but it's nice to have the capacity so if/when the job comes along you can take it.

Mark Leigh · Apr 6, 2012

I agree the inner shield and dual shield is great, but fellas it isn't always practical for all weld joints, especially square tube joints. I have a 251 at home and used 250 and 300 amp machines in all configurations. It is easy to buy a "Big Machine" and open up your horizions , but a guy needs to sit down and say, how often will I really have a 1/2 to 1 inch plate job with the type of closed weld joints that a spray application will be needed ????

The 252 with hard wire, or inner shield will do 98% of anything that comes along for a home or hobby guy, if you are in a structural steel shop or pipe welding shop---------------- you should already know what you need -----

The other deal is buying a machine that will run a aluminum spool gun------------------ most of them just sit and collect dust at home .

SND · Apr 6, 2012

I remember .045 dual shield running around 180amps or so with CO2, looks like the 252 is 60% duty at 200amp, 40% at 250amps. So its fairly capable.

I plan to add a mig when I get the other shop built, I figure it'll be either that or thermal arc as they seem decent for the cost too and my TA-185 tig unit has been great.

aametalmaster · Apr 6, 2012

I run a MM252 10 hours a day everyday with .045 gas fluxcore and CO2. Yes the gun gets hot and always melts off that little plastic gizmo at the end of the nozzle. There must be 25 of the MM251 or MM252's in our shop. Now some guys have the MM302 with the bigger heavier duty guns but i don't like the bigger gun for what i do but their welder's are nice machines. I don't like my 15' gun at all unless its straight out and most days i can't do that with some jobs. Just my thoughts...Bob

DaveKamp · Apr 26, 2012

IMO, the difference between a welder, and a WELDER, is the duty cycle they're designed to tolerate. The Millermatic 250 sitting in our company shop is rated 200A at 60%... it's okay, but it's pretty clear that after the fan's been running for a while, that it starts to run out-of-breath. Not sure why we have a 300A gun on it, because it's big, cumbersome, and the old (200A) gun never got very hot.

I've got a CP-200 in my shop, it's rated 200A at 100% duty cycle, same size as the 250 (wire feeder on top, of course), and I've never worried about overheating it, and it never seems to get winded. I've got a 300A Bernard gun on it, and it WILL get pretty warm. My previous CP-200 had a Twecko #2 on it, and it WOULD get hot enough to make me very uncomfortable. My opinion is that the older external feeders are much tougher than the integrally-mounted feeders... albeit they're not as 'stylistically' clean, and they tend to accumulate dirt... but they're easy to vacuum clean, and I don't have to kneel down alongside it to change a spool.

And the biggest bonus- used CP's are substantially less expensive than a new anything.

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