Miller syncrowave 250 PCB burnt

BpWhight · Oct 28, 2020

I just bought this Miller syncrowave 250 for $500 broken.
Serial LF430266L
Power on, front panel lights up, all buttons work.
HLP-11 fault code in one of the main switch settings DC-
Welder won't weld.
I disassemble the welder to find the back of the circuit card burnt.
I need a good high resolution picture of the traces on the back of the board 209877D so I can repair.

Newman109 · Oct 28, 2020

BpWhight said:
I just bought this Miller syncrowave 250 for $500 broken. I can't find a serial number tag or sticker anywhere on it.
Power on, front panel lights up, all buttons work.
HLP-11 fault code in one of the main switch settings.
Welder won't weld.
I disassemble the welder to find the back of the circuit card burnt.
I need a good high resolution picture of the traces on the back of the board 209877D so I can repair.

You probably already know that there are places that repair them amd Miller has new ones with changed part number. I wouldn't even attempt it.

Miller-209877D | EIC Repair
[url]https://www.millerserviceparts.com/en/miller-electric-209877-circuit-card-assycontrol-int
[/URL]

Welder want 2 be · Oct 28, 2020

Can you give us a little more clarifying information. Are you interested in trying to repair the card yourself and save money rather than pay Miller $955 for a new card? I see your profile, do you have electronics experience/training? I don't own that machine to give you a picture of a card. I do know of a company in North Carolina who repairs cards. Will they repair this card and would the repair be cheaper than a new one from Miller? I don't know, I don't really know a lot about them but you can try contacting them.

- Donna Green
- Customer Service Representative
- Quality Industrial Electronics-QIE
- 8642 W. Market St. Ste. 118
- Greensboro, N.C. 27409
- 800-265-1999

I really can't vouch for them as I have never used them, I was going to have them repair a Hobart card, they said they had repaired my Hobart card before and were hoping to repair it for less than $200. Till I got the card sent to them I discovered my problem was not the card so I never have used them. You can try reaching out to them. Maybe someone else on the forum can say yes they had good success with them repairing a card or no, they do not recommend them.

Steven

BpWhight · Oct 28, 2020

Yes, it is over a grand for the upgraded PCB so I'm not going that route.
I could send it to be repaired, As I've read there is a chance that repair will fail.
But I'm the type of person who fixes everything himself, and I mean everything.
I've fixed broken PCB's in the past, I know how to do so without causing further damage.
The ARCing on the circuit board was between the 115v CB and the fan relay coil. I'm thinking water intrusion between PCB layers, or maybe an Ant, hopefully it wasn't HF

Newman109 · Oct 28, 2020

The main issue with repairing a welder with a bad PCB is that you cannot be certain that the damage could either be: 1. Within the damaged board only, or 2. As the result of a failure ahead of the board and which cascaded to damage the board.

Without knowing for sure whether he problem is No.1 or No. 2, plugging in a new or repaired board is only done at great risk.

Am I an expert at electronics? No, but I did spend 10 years working at the Litton Co. as a technical writer and I used to see waste baskets full of burned out boards. They would seldom repair one since they had lots of spares and fixing them was generally not cost effective.

Good luck on this.

EDIT: For the record, I own a 2006 model Miller Syncrowave 200. It was used but had only 20 hours on it when I bought it in that year. I used it quite heavily for a few years, but It's used very little anymore and still works well.

If it were to blow a PCB board similar in cost to the OP's I would scrap the machine without any regrets. For $1k or so repair costs, I could get any number of late model inverter machines with more features.

I'm just sayin'.

BpWhight · Oct 29, 2020

Well after cleaning the board inside the bubbled up portion, I can now see the missing burnt trace.
My plan is to jump the traces with solid insulated copper wire.
Reflow all solder connections in the immediate area.
Check the main switch contacts with a multimeter at the PCB connection.
Check the main transformer with a megger.
Check voltages.
Clean water tank.
Reassemble and test. Hopefully by next week it's working. We will see

BpWhight · Oct 29, 2020

Newman109 said:
The main issue with repairing a welder with a bad PCB is that you cannot be certain that the damage could either be: 1. Within the damaged board only, or 2. As the result of a failure ahead of the board and which cascaded to damage the board.

Without knowing for sure whether he problem is No.1 or No. 2, plugging in a new or repaired board is only done at great risk.

Am I an expert at electronics? No, but I did spend 10 years working at the Litton Co. as a technical writer and I used to see waste baskets full of burned out boards. They would seldom repair one since they had lots of spares and fixing them was generally not cost effective.

Good luck on this.

EDIT: For the record, I own a 2006 model Miller Syncrowave 200. It was used but had only 20 hours on it when I bought it in that year. I used it quite heavily for a few years, but It's used very little anymore and still works well.

If it were to blow a PCB board similar in cost to the OP's I would scrap the machine without any regrets. For $1k or so repair costs, I could get any number of late model inverter machines with more features.

I'm just sayin'.

If I repair the PCB myself and it blows again, I've lost nothing.

BpWhight · Oct 29, 2020

Welder want 2 be said:
Can you give us a little more clarifying information. Are you interested in trying to repair the card yourself and save money rather than pay Miller $955 for a new card? I see your profile, do you have electronics experience/training? I don't own that machine to give you a picture of a card. I do know of a company in North Carolina who repairs cards. Will they repair this card and would the repair be cheaper than a new one from Miller? I don't know, I don't really know a lot about them but you can try contacting them.

- Donna Green
- Customer Service Representative
- Quality Industrial Electronics-QIE
- 8642 W. Market St. Ste. 118
- Greensboro, N.C. 27409
- 800-265-1999

I really can't vouch for them as I have never used them, I was going to have them repair a Hobart card, they said they had repaired my Hobart card before and were hoping to repair it for less than $200. Till I got the card sent to them I discovered my problem was not the card so I never have used them. You can try reaching out to them. Maybe someone else on the forum can say yes they had good success with them repairing a card or no, they do not recommend them.

Steven

Yes I will attempt to repair myself.

Pete Deal · Oct 29, 2020

I recently bought a miller pipe pro 304. It had a bad board. I bought a technical manual for it on ebay. I have quite a bit of electronics design/Troubleshooting experience. I got it fixed. Parts cost me about $15.

If you are accustomed to working on such things it’s worth a try. These manuals have theory of operation/troubleshooting and board level schematics. Make sure to get the one for the serial number range of your machine.

BpWhight · Oct 29, 2020

Pete Deal said:
I recently bought a miller pipe pro 304. It had a bad board. I bought a technical manual for it on ebay. I have quite a bit of electronics design/Troubleshooting experience. I got it fixed. Parts cost me about $15.

If you are accustomed to working on such things it’s worth a try. These manuals have theory of operation/troubleshooting and board level schematics. Make sure to get the one for the serial number range of your machine.

I downloaded the manual which I was surprised to see a schematic down to the component level. Found an alternistor bad, so I'll just replace all 4 of them.
My problem is that I'm used to Aircraft schematics, so much simpler to read!

Jackson64 · Nov 9, 2020

any luck with replacing the alternistor?

I have the same exact symptoms and would like to attempt a repair myself. I see a burn spot on one leg of a resistor at the bottom of my card. I'd guess something shorted and burnt up.

how did you determine that your alternistor was bad? Where on the board is it located?

BpWhight · Nov 12, 2020

Checked with regular multimeter set for resistance. Found the two large legs shorted to each other. But later found out it only controls the main fans.
I found a bad resistor, waiting for it to come in, we'll see if that fixes it.
I also ordered a digital microscope for 75 bucks so I can now see the small components easily. I'll keep working on this till I fix it....or I die, whichever comes first....lol. I figure at the cost of a replacement board, I can buy all the test equipment I need to fix it, and then be set for any future failures.

BpWhight · Nov 13, 2020

It's FIXED, those two little resistors nearest the board connections fixed it.
Now to fix the remote won't control the amperage.
I've already verified when turning the wheel on the remote that the resistance changes at the PCB connection. Which means their is still something wrong with the circuit board. But at least I don't get error codes anymore when switching settings.
And I have to figure out why the water pump is not comming on.
Eventually I'll have it fully functional.

BpWhight · Nov 15, 2020

The remote does vary the 10VDC from 0v to 10v at the board connection.
So after tracing the signal through the board for the remote, finding all the simple components good, I think the LM324M SMD IC Quad Op Amp chip is bad. Or rather if that chip dosen't fix it, then the main chip ATMEGA16 is bad. Let's hope that's not the case as I'd have to teach myself programming to replace it.

BpWhight · Nov 17, 2020

In full disclosure, the amperage adjustment was working when I bought the welder, it was probably me not following proper static electrical procedures which caused this issue.
So, if you attempt something like this, then use a rubber mat, use a wrist ground strap, or rubber gloves, make sure work bench and all tools are properly grounded, and discharge your capicators......all of which I did not do. Static electricity kills PCBs.

BpWhight · Jan 24, 2021

After replacing the quad amp chip, she still doesn't work. So I now know the main board chip is bad. Not worth it to repair. I will be purchasing the 237587 board kit to repair this welder.

ChipChaff · Jan 24, 2021

I enjoyed this video enough to watch it in its entirety.

Ziggy2 · Jan 24, 2021

BpWhight said:
After replacing the quad amp chip, she still doesn't work. So I now know the main board chip is bad. Not worth it to repair. I will be purchasing the 237587 board kit to repair this welder.

Have you checked the SCRs yet? If the gate drivers are blown, you also very likely have blown gates on the SCRs.

PC boards with burnt traces and no knowledge of the exact cause of failure gets to be a real crap shoot. You might want to cut your losses before you get too much into it.

Miller syncrowave 250 PCB burnt

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Titanium

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Cast Iron

Stainless

Similar threads