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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan barr View Post
    .... If anything, i would buy the lincoln easy mig 140 for $550 and the wire feed accessory for another $200 Why? because that's the highest qaulity rig out there! LOL

    .....

    dan
    Are you trying to poke the bears? That machine will not do what you want, at any skill level. Check the specs carefully.

    If you want to learn TIG welding great, go for it. Best thing ever in my book. If you want to make product however, don't take up TIG welding. Learning time is too long. You'll either short change on the practice and end up a lousy TIG welder or you'll get really into it and burn years of spare time trying to master it. Note I said trying.

    Every fastener you could ever imagine is available for joining square tubing, you just have to do some research.

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    im just poking at Ciszewski. who was kind enough to tell me that if i bought a bunch of equipment and a beanie, then i too, could be a welder.

    I am still researching. I have looked at the aluminum extrusion(s) out there and those are some pretty attractive options. very tempting.

    im still looking for connectors for square tubing.

    im thinking that i can bend a hinge into a C-channel and put that over two pieces of aluminum tubing and put two bolts and nylon nuts on each side. the next challenge is to mount some sort of tabs on the opposite site that will accept the detent ring pin to lock the two tubes into the desired position.

    I'm thinking of using angle aluminum and riveting it to the square tubing.

    still got to think about feet, moutning a box and paltform to one end, etc.

    cheers,

    dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan barr View Post
    will pop rivets withstand the set-up/teardown of the frame 200+ times per year by uncaring individuals?

    dan

    If done right I dont see why not, Use the correct size Clearance drill on both the hinges and the box section and It will be plenty strong. Here is a tip drill and rivet one hole then drill the rest needed so things dont move.

    Just one thing do you know you can not weld steel hinges to Aluminum? I recently bought A new 250amp Mig for about $1700 Aust. Also note to weld Aluminum you must have a welder capable of changing its poles and you must have argon gas you cant get gasless wire and as I understand it unlike here is Australia gasless welding has been band in the USA for year

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    Default yup, getting closer

    yup,

    the c-channel hinge should be strong enough. but, i still have to make the tabs or some sort of locking mechanism thatt will hold the tubing in place.

    Also,

    I Have looked at the aluminum extrusions and found that those companies and their products are geared towards building static things, not things that are meant for easy set-up/teardown.

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    Here is a slightly different component system, which may be modifiable. Leantek.

    Plastic coated galvanized tubing with quality connectors with captive nuts.

    LeanTek® components and their uses

    I can't find a listing of all of the various connectors but I've used them before and think they're great for what they are. Don't know that they have hinged connectors but do know angled are available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan barr View Post
    I Have looked at the aluminum extrusions and found that those companies and their products are geared towards building static things, not things that are meant for easy set-up/teardown.
    That it is static doesn't mean that it is hard to setup or take down. Well, I guess that depends on how you look upon having to fasten a bolt or two in each corner. Anyway, how is welding that much easier for easy takedown... Even with newbie welds?

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    Default Check out eztube

    EZ Tube Boltless Construction System, Aluminum Tube, Steel Tube, Storage Products.
    We used it to build a trade show booth - Al extrusions with glass filled plastic connectors have held up well for us. Think tinker toy. Not a 100% solution but may be useful.

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    the welding engineer in me says:
    stay away from aluminum mig welding especially if you fall into the "hobbyist home welder" category and not the certed, trained welder category.

    Aluminum welding is harder to design, control and do than steel
    Aluminum is more difficult and defect prone as compared to steels
    Aluminum mig is even harder to do consistently than steels

    you'll end up with a nasty looking weld, that could be brittle fracture prone unexpectedly.

    I try to stay away from aluminum mig unless I'm doing some production production.

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    FYI: Muggy Weld products are NOT the "weld a pop can" stuff from the county fairs and car shows. SuperAlloy 1 is absolutely superb for repairing A/C condensers and aluminum radiators. Stuff that would be very hard, if not impossible for a non expert to TIG weld. The SuperAlloy 5 works very well for larger stuff and IS a welding process, not brazing or soldering. I have used it for things that should have been TIG welded, except that there was no room for the TIG torch. It is pretty near foolproof as well. All it takes is a propane torch for anything I ever used it on. I did not believe it would work as advertised until I saw it done. Just follow the directions and it is PFM.

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    Pop rivets are very strong if you have enough of them in a joint, remember most aircraft were built with them pre composite era. That said there's also far more industrial versions of pop rivets. I forget the name, but they need a 1/4" hole and are hellishly strong.

    So long as you use pop rivets of the right grip range and use good well aligned holes you can significantly out do a averagely welded thin wall alu joint any day of the week. A lot of alloys strength comes from the cold working that forms it into the final extrusion shape. Weld it and its back to bubble gum. Hence mechanicaly fastened structures can often perform better for longer than a welded equivalent in this application.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Pop rivets are very strong if you have enough of them in a joint, remember most aircraft were built with them pre composite era. That said there's also far more industrial versions of pop rivets. I forget the name, but they need a 1/4" hole and are hellishly strong.

    So long as you use pop rivets of the right grip range and use good well aligned holes you can significantly out do a averagely welded thin wall alu joint any day of the week. A lot of alloys strength comes from the cold working that forms it into the final extrusion shape. Weld it and its back to bubble gum. Hence mechanicaly fastened structures can often perform better for longer than a welded equivalent in this application.
    Maybe ?

    Avdel Global :: Monobolt®

    Also using a one part epoxy or urethane structural adhesive on riveted joints never hurts.

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    If you buy a 110v lincon from the Home cheapo, You can forget about welding aluminum. They SAY you can, but its scam. The aluminum tubing from the Deep Homo is also garbage. Its inconsistant chinese junk. I know you are doing this on a budget, But why not Order aluminum from a metal supply or aircraft supply place. Small sections like sold at the junk store are UPS shippable and better quality.

    As far as the welding, Take it to a pro. Sounds like it may cost you an hour labor. Why waste money on a junk machine that really will only let you down. You would be better off riviting the hinges than welding them with the 110 welder.

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    Default AC repair

    A bit off topic, but you can actually repair an AC condenser with Superalloy 1? Will it take the pressure? How about one of the aluminum lines I managed to hole with an errant screwdriver?

    Thanks,
    Keen


    Quote Originally Posted by Avanti View Post
    FYI: Muggy Weld products are NOT the "weld a pop can" stuff from the county fairs and car shows. SuperAlloy 1 is absolutely superb for repairing A/C condensers and aluminum radiators. Stuff that would be very hard, if not impossible for a non expert to TIG weld. The SuperAlloy 5 works very well for larger stuff and IS a welding process, not brazing or soldering. I have used it for things that should have been TIG welded, except that there was no room for the TIG torch. It is pretty near foolproof as well. All it takes is a propane torch for anything I ever used it on. I did not believe it would work as advertised until I saw it done. Just follow the directions and it is PFM.

  15. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Pop rivets are very strong .....
    adama is correct. If you connect your parts tight enough and put in enough rivets to keep it tight, then it will last a long time. Problem is people don't take the time to fit them properly, then complain when they loosen and fall apart. If they loosen, refit the piece properly and replace the rivets before the piece is junk.
    (Note i didn't need to copy ALL of the post, just enough to show who i agreed with...a trick for new forum posters)

    Even though this is an old thread, I had to put in my two cents, and share the fact that I have not laughed as hard as I did on this thread. some 'lively characters' here!

    I was searching for information on muggy weld, as I have some '54 Ford emblems I need to straighten, and possibly weld. heard about muggy weld before and google picked this forum up.

    Good find.
    My dad was the best welder I have ever met. Being in the Oil patch up here in Alberta, I have met thousands. Problem is he is gone now, and he couldn't teach me everything.

    I have all his equipment, and about 1/16 of his skill . I know working on pot metal (white metal) is tricky, and if this muggy weld keeps the temperature down below near melting (the trick with welding/brazing/soldering the stuff is the narrow temperature window between good and a mess)
    Then I was gunna try it.

    Anyone else know what alloy this is made of? any good or bad experience? alternatives for this stuff?

    (First post here)

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    There is more to welding than just laying a bead ecspecially on aluminum. I can set up a welder and the weldment and teach almost anyone in short order to make an acceptable weld.

    Setting up the welder( settings, filler metal type and size, gas) and making sure whatever is going to be welded is clean, right metal, right joint style ect is the key along with a good trouble shooting skill set. Clean for aluminum is much tougher than clean on stainless or mild steel.

    If you have the drive then go for it. It’s a handy skill to have.

    Dang just seen it was a necro thread.

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    I would suggest assemble with pop rivets, just enough to hold everything aligned. Like maybe two rivets per joint on each piece. Then take it to a real welder and have them tig it. I would expect the welding cost would be low if it is all clean metal and the welder does not have to waste any time getting stuff lined up and clamped.
    In my limited experience a metal supply yard will charge about 1/2 what hoe depot does and they will have stock longer then six feet.
    Bil lD
    Bil lD.

  18. #37
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    Old thread I know but I find it interesting that so many threads like this peter out with no real resolution.
    We never hear how the OP actually made out or if his problem was solved. It's like going to the movies
    and walking out just before the final scene...

  19. #38
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    Default 80/20 anyone?

    I'm not sure why no one has mentioned the 80/20 component system. It's fantastic and always looks professional. It's used ubiquitously in the movie "The Martian" and many others. They have many rail dimensions available and all the components you need to make any joint. If you can make a square crosscut you can build anything you want. If you can drill a flat bottomed hole, you can use their very strong fasteners. My CNC machine frame is made of this stuff. I do think it's a little rickety for a CNC router but I was able to make it work. For your application, it will be plenty. It's expensive but worth it IMHO and you can change your design and not have to scrap very much at all. Think Erector Set for grownups.

    There are other cheap "brazing" or soldering types of solutions for aluminum that are cheap. But, I agree with everyone's comments that it's going to look like a$$ unless you have a seasoned aluminum welder do it for you. A photo booth is a lot of welds.

    I ended up on this thread because I was looking at muggyweld for a zinc pot metal repair on an insanely complicated part on a piece BMW motorcycle luggage that broke. Even for that, the muggyweld is too rich and it doesn't seem appropriate for actually building something. Plus you'd go broke.

    I'm sure our good friend on here will curse me out. Good thing I'm hardly ever on here so I'll never see that and my feelings won't be hurt. Love the forum and this was the first thread where I've seen a post like that. We were all noobs once and probably still are in one form or another.

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    In response to the latest post above - Muggyweld solder works great for soldering pot metal. I would probably not, however, use it for anything that bears a structural load without other means of reinforcement. But I don't like to see things re-break after I've repaired them. I have repaired several non-structural pot metal items with Muggyweld solder that turned out great. One was a needle arm pivot for an old wind-up phonograph.

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    The repair I'm attempting is going to have to bear a high torsion load on a pot metal spindle that's about 7mm in diameter. Design is weak which is probably why it broke. Isolating that part of the mechanism for a heat based repair is going to take a bit of tear down. Then it all gets re-assembled and riveted into place before I can test and hear it snap again.
    It's a fancy latch on a motorcycle luggage bag. I think I might just try a two dollar hasp and paint it black. Getting setup for muggyweld is not free.


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