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  1. #41
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    Yeah, your right, I do have some loyalty to them. They are neighbors and friends. I never said they build perfect machines! So far all I have heard is the owner complaining about some holes that need cleaned up and some sharp edges that need deburred. As complicated a machine as these are that really isn't much to bitch about. The factory setup guy will take care of any other issues. You worked on the install of one machine and they have sold several thousand so who would I have respect for?
    The owner said he wanted a machine to bend to a tolerance of 1/16". He probably can't afford a million dollar amada and the cheaper betenbender will do that tolerance easily.

    I think if you could build a 240 ton press brake in a two stall garage with a buzzbox I would like to hire you as my employee as I need somebody and I can't find anybody remotely close to that skill level?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    I think if you could build a 240 ton press brake in a two stall garage with a buzzbox I would like to hire you as my employee as I need somebody and I can't find anybody remotely close to that skill level?
    Se even YOU won't buy from them ?

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  4. #43
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    I don't have to buy one! When I need something bent or sheared I just go and borrow theirs. I would buy theirs if it would do what I want and I was in that business. Thats the issue! Betenbender builds a lower cost machine than amada or trumph. Not everybody needs or can afford a high dollar machine. And there isn't enough used machines on the market to chose from when you need one.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    I think if you could build a 240 ton press brake in a two stall garage with a buzzbox I would like to hire you as my employee as I need somebody and I can't find anybody remotely close to that skill level?
    FYI a amada is Sub 200K in that size - tonnage. Secound hand couple of years old there commonly had for high 5 digits. theres plenty of other good secound hand presses out there rather than buying new crap. As to making one in a two car garage, sorry can't help there but i have made a some what smaller one in a single car garage, but with a inverter TIG. That said, i don't tend to work for arrogant ass holes, so will pass thanks.

  6. #45
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    I have not priced new amada machines, after buying one what are an approximate cost to tool it up? My experience with machine tools has been that you can easily spend as much as the basic machine costs on accessories and tooling? I am assuming the same for fab equipment?

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    I find it amazing that you call customers "Assholes".

    Those are people that bought the machine, and paid for it in full.

    Nice work if you can get it.

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    I never said anything bad about the customer!! In fact I never addressed the customer at all. Go back and read my comments again. It was you I meant the original "asshole" comment for. You are quick to turn words around and jump on people who don't agree with you digger doug. I usually lurk on here and don't comment much and I could care less that some of you may think I am An arrogant asshole. I jumped into this discussion solely because you guys were quick to badmouth people I know for no legitimate reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    I never said anything bad about the customer!! In fact I never addressed the customer at all. Go back and read my comments again. It was you I meant the original "asshole" comment for. You are quick to turn words around and jump on people who don't agree with you digger doug. I usually lurk on here and don't comment much and I could care less that some of you may think I am An arrogant asshole. I jumped into this discussion solely because you guys were quick to badmouth people I know for no legitimate reason.
    You called me an asshole, my customer (that I did the install for)
    was the customer.

    Here's a leetl bit of advice.

    Stop the Piss and Vitrol hatred, your making your "friends" shop
    (the one you have no interest in....) even worse by your blind
    postings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    Well after rereading digger doug's comments he apparently hates betenbender for some reason? And nothing I say will change his mind? And frankly I have better things to do than argue with some asshole know it all on the internet. As far as damage control, I did not intend for my comments to be damage control. I have no dog in the fight. I think we should see if the original poster is happy with the machine after he gets it running and uses it ? Jeff
    Just for posterity (in case you wish to edit your ramblings)

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    I don't get how there's two sides to every story. He's not complaining about a lack of service. He's complaining about a machine that should not have passed QC.

    They need to reimburse him for the time he spent chasing the holes, and any work he's done on it. If not with cash, with tooling.

    There are plenty of used machines on the market, and as long as the bearings are good, old well built machines can be retrofitted with new controls and hydraulics with a reasonable savings as compared to new. BUT...the OP's desire was simple, he wanted a machine that was new, out of the box, that would cost as little headache as possible so that he could use it, not have to work on it, or line things up.

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  13. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    I have not priced new amada machines, after buying one what are an approximate cost to tool it up? My experience with machine tools has been that you can easily spend as much as the basic machine costs on accessories and tooling? I am assuming the same for fab equipment?
    Kinda the same cost as tooling up any other press brake, all depends on if your going to be bending the same part on it or not??? The Amada will take any tooling any other press brake can with the correct holders just like any other press brake. Shit next your going to be saying a heap of shit Chinese mill drill is better than a multi axis HMC because its cheaper to tool up?? What kinda spamming fruit cake are you?

    Over here most secound hand press brakes won't come with much more than one set of tooling if your lucky, but then the same can be said for most new press brakes, tooling is very much a aditional cost and like any other tool is all down to what your needs are.

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    Really? I ask a simple question because I don't know what tooling for an amada costs and you answer with a rude reply calling me a "spamming fruit cake"? Amazing how brave people are hiding behind a keyboard! You wouldn't do that in person? Over here people carry guns and they would shoot you for being so arrogant.

    None of this "piss and vitrol" does anybody any good and certainly caused anguish to the original poster by doug for critisizing his original purchase. The poor guy has disappeared afraid to say anything further? So far the only thing I have learned is the fabrication forum is populated by a couple of arrogant pricks . And no doug I didn't call your customer an asshole, I can't imagine why you drug that into this? Has nothing to do with the issue at hand?

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    I am happy to say that I live "over here", and in my rural area, not many people carry guns, and when they shoot somebody, its usually a family member. Which is to say, adama would be just fine.

    I think its kind of unique to the USA that there is a level of machine and, especially, fabrication tools, that, while they may not be made in garages, are still made in a garage style. And that there is a market for them.
    I do not have a press brake, but, if I did, it would most likely be an amada.
    Because, when I am working, I have a very small amount of patience for average tools.
    Life is short, and I really enjoy using well made tools.
    I would never own a Scotchman Ironworker, for example, just because they are a bit cheaper, and, "close enough". Or an Iroquois, or an Edwards, or a Big Blu power hammer.
    Every time I use my ironworker, I enjoy it, because Geka made it right.

    Still, there is an ass for every chair, and the market certainly exists for simply made inexpensive fab machinery.
    But it aint me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    Really? I ask a simple question because I don't know what tooling for an amada costs and you answer with a rude reply calling me a "spamming fruit cake"? Amazing how brave people are hiding behind a keyboard! You wouldn't do that in person? Over here people carry guns and they would shoot you for being so arrogant.

    None of this "piss and vitrol" does anybody any good and certainly caused anguish to the original poster by doug for critisizing his original purchase. The poor guy has disappeared afraid to say anything further? So far the only thing I have learned is the fabrication forum is populated by a couple of arrogant pricks . And no doug I didn't call your customer an asshole, I can't imagine why you drug that into this? Has nothing to do with the issue at hand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    I never said anything bad about the customer!! In fact I never addressed the customer at all. Go back and read my comments again. It was you I meant the original "asshole" comment for. You are quick to turn words around and jump on people who don't agree with you digger doug. I usually lurk on here and don't comment much and I could care less that some of you may think I am An arrogant asshole. I jumped into this discussion solely because you guys were quick to badmouth people I know for no legitimate reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    Well after rereading digger doug's comments he apparently hates betenbender for some reason? And nothing I say will change his mind? And frankly I have better things to do than argue with some asshole know it all on the internet. As far as damage control, I did not intend for my comments to be damage control. I have no dog in the fight. I think we should see if the original poster is happy with the machine after he gets it running and uses it ? Jeff
    wow, your digging a deeper hole, called me an asshole 3 times, then deny it was directed to me (your quote) then claim your not doing "damage control".

    I have hi-lighted your written threat.
    It is admissible in court you do know.

    FWIW honest law abiding citizens that carry, know the rules, and do not threaten.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    Over here people carry guns and they would shoot you for being so arrogant.
    Really? I am a Conceal Carry Permit Holder and I would never shoot someone for having a different opinion...unless their opinion is I shouldn't live. I hope if you ever apply for a Permit that the Iowa Background Checks include a sweep of your posts here and you are denied. Statements like that make all of us law abiding citizens look bad.

    Equipment requirements are defined by their use and support of Customer Requirements or other areas of your manufacturing. Not everyone needs a top of the line machine.

    In our business we have 25 Amadas ranging from RG-80's to HFE2204S's and a Safan Ultra 130-3100NS...why because of the type of work we do. Coming in March are 2 Amada HG 1003-ATC fully tooled costing $550K each...but...type of use is separate from the quality of the machine being purchased.

    A new Machine coming in should be flawless no matter what level of technology. You are buying the right to the fist scratch or dent. Heck in January we installed a new 8K Fiber laser and it was perfect accept there was an issue with the Fiber Cable...even the high end machines have quality issues. They had a new Cable in the next day. Their recovery plan was perfect...they had techs fly in same day from Boston and Chicago waiting for the new cable when it arrived UPS Red the next day. We have this expectation on any new piece of equipment coming in and we will not pay for the machine until we are happy with it, the install is complete and it is in production...period!

    I am sure the OP spent his hard earned money on a very useful tool for his operation/customer expectation. I am sure his expectation was it would be in useable condition being that is was purchased new. And it wasn't. My take away if I was Betenbender I would review and address my internal Quality Program assuring this condition would never happen again.

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  21. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    Really? I ask a simple question because I don't know what tooling for an amada costs and you answer with a rude reply calling me a "spamming fruit cake"? Amazing how brave people are hiding behind a keyboard! You wouldn't do that in person? Over here people carry guns and they would shoot you for being so arrogant.
    Where I came from in the South of England, a "fruit cake" would be a homosexual, at least in the 60-70's. I don't think your a homosexual, but you have your head so far up Betenbender's ass their going to need rectal reconstructive surgery soon.

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  23. #57
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    Okay, here is the other side of the story! The original poster bought the pressbrake at fabtech in chicago. He bought it direct from the factory and got a show special price which was very good for him! There were some problems with the hold down arms which were corrected and a service tech from betenbender went to the customer and went over the machine completely and instructed the customer on proper use of all the functions. Turns out this was some time ago and they have not heard back from the customer with any complaints! Betenbenders normal policy is to have their service tech go over the machine before initial startup they don't really want the customer working on a new machine. End of story!

    This morning I reviewed these postings with the management at Betenbender and we all had a good laugh at all the name calling!
    Flame away!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post

    This morning I reviewed these postings with the management at Betenbender and we all had a good laugh at all the name calling!
    Flame away!
    What a bunch of fruit cakes! Do you think many people are going to buy a Betenbender product after reading this thread!! If I was Betenbender I would be bending over backwards to fix this so the OP can report back that he's satisfied with the machine and Betenbender service. Even if there's two sides to a story, people only remember one.

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  26. #59
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    Wow!You flunked reading! Betenbender took care of the issues almost immediately and satisfied the customer! They haven't heard from him with any more problems. How many times do you need to hear that! I can't answer why the original poster has not been back here? Before the customer bought the machine HE searched for complaints about betenbender and found none HIS WORDS! Reread his posts. ITS YOU GUYS THAT ONLY WANT THE STORY TO END ONE WAY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    Okay, here is the other side of the story! The original poster bought the pressbrake at fabtech in chicago. He bought it direct from the factory and got a show special price which was very good for him! There were some problems with the hold down arms which were corrected and a service tech from betenbender went to the customer and went over the machine completely and instructed the customer on proper use of all the functions. Turns out this was some time ago and they have not heard back from the customer with any complaints! Betenbenders normal policy is to have their service tech go over the machine before initial startup they don't really want the customer working on a new machine. End of story!

    This morning I reviewed these postings with the management at Betenbender and we all had a good laugh at all the name calling!
    Flame away!
    If the "Show Machine" has those issues what does a production machine have? That would be my concern only knowing most Machine Tool Manufacturers bring their best of the best to shows.

    If I was Betenbender my take away for this Forum would be to fix the issues ASAF²P to eliminate customer problems leading to negative press.

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