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  1. #81
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    If servicecar rider had not come on here the thread would have died.

    One thing this tread tells us is that trying to make a product in the west at a chinese price point is not always wise no mater how well intentioned

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  3. #82
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    Actually Adama you are very close to a real situation. Mr BEtenbender collects military vehicles, even has a british tank. Has some jeeps with fake machine guns. If somebody tried to load a live round in one I'm sure it would blow up if they tried to fire it. He has great fun driving them in parades.

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by pressbrake1 View Post
    If servicecar rider had not come on here the thread would have died.

    One thing this tread tells us is that trying to make a product in the west at a chinese price point is not always wise no mater how well intentioned
    "Crap is Crap, no matter where it's made"

    Some manuf, have offshored the "heavy fab" of the business, and bring
    in partially made frames, do the machining here.

    Wiring, and plumbing done stateside, with quality components.
    Some even farm out the control box to a specialist shop,
    for better quality.

    Final alignment & testing before shipping.

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Sometimes the smartest thing to do is step away from the keyboard.
    And to clarify, this was aimed at Servicar. I have my daft moments, but he's gone completely off the rails with this thread.

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    Thank you Scruffy you make valid points.

    This is my last comment on this thread. I want to thank all involved. The real purpose can now be revealed. I am working with a college student who is studying social media and how it has changed people's attitudes. I am not normally as arrogant and rude as I appeared in some of the posts. This was all done to test reactions and observations and test thought processes. We wanted to see how we could change opinions and views and it turns out people always want to see an underdog come out ahead. Another underlying thing that the student is studying is the current atmosphere regarding sexual abuse and the allegations and how to defend against claims with no real evidence on either side. Again thank you all for helping out.
    Wow I had no clue I was being studied...I will wait to read the Students report. Hopefully you will post it here...or pm me and I'll tell you where you can send it so I can read it. I can't wait to understand my "thought process".

    I sincerely hope in the interest of "Science" and "study" that Betenbender's business does not suffer and they take to heart the issues pointed out and develop a continuous improvement program to assure things like this don't come back to haunt them in the next students study.

  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4 FN 27 View Post
    Wow I had no clue I was being studied...I will wait to read the Students report. Hopefully you will post it here...or pm me and I'll tell you where you can send it so I can read it. I can't wait to understand my "thought process".

    I sincerely hope in the interest of "Science" and "study" that Betenbender's business does not suffer and they take to heart the issues pointed out and develop a continuous improvement program to assure things like this don't come back to haunt them in the next students study.

    Not only has he trashed Bettenbenders reputation, He has ruined his own as a longstanding member here.

    Early onset Demensia does that.

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  9. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servicar rider View Post
    Okay, here is the other side of the story! The original poster bought the pressbrake at fabtech in chicago. He bought it direct from the factory and got a show special price which was very good for him! There were some problems with the hold down arms which were corrected and a service tech from betenbender went to the customer and went over the machine completely and instructed the customer on proper use of all the functions. Turns out this was some time ago and they have not heard back from the customer with any complaints! Betenbenders normal policy is to have their service tech go over the machine before initial startup they don't really want the customer working on a new machine. End of story!

    This morning I reviewed these postings with the management at Betenbender and we all had a good laugh at all the name calling!
    Flame away!
    I forwarded this post to Sales at Betenbender so they could have another laugh. I'm sure their really amused by this.

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  11. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post

    Early onset Demensia does that.
    I suffer from Dimensia every time I misread my micrometer...

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  13. #89
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    I've been really busy and have not been on lately.

    To clarify everything: There are a few things that still need to be addressed, the rep that came out to show me how to run the machine was great, he is working with me and I'm still waiting for some new machined upper die pinch point plates that securely hold the upper segmented dies in place and there's one other minor thing that I need to talk to them about.

    From the little bit that I've used it, it does what I need it to do... to be fair, I need to give them time to make things right.

    As far as the machine being a show room special, I looked at a smaller machine at the show and ordered a bigger one when I was there.

    In the end, all I want is a machine that does what I need it to do, do I need a need a machine that holds .0004 ( NO ), do I need a machine that does a repeatable bend within a few thousandths, ( YES ).

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  15. #90
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    Good to hear you are satisfied (so far).
    I hope you make a lot of profit from your new
    purchase. That's all that matters.

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  17. #91
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    I saw a big betenbender brake...must have been over 225ton. It had most of its stoutness where it needed it. Was a manual stroke with a single axis back gauge. Simple and strong. Machining was quite good. Some of the layout seemed very simple but highly functional. Stout budget machine

  18. #92
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    An object lesson in how a few moments carelessness by one or two employees can trash a reputation..........I would bet that everyone working in the factory...(except the boss) would know who the boofheads were causing these problems.

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  20. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    An object lesson in how a few moments carelessness by one or two employees can trash a reputation..........I would bet that everyone working in the factory...(except the boss) would know who the boofheads were causing these problems.
    People often don't realize how significant PM is to Google searches, or lurking nonmembers.

    I bought a brand new press brake in the past couple months. Used this site for a good bit of my research. Guess what manufacturer didn't get an RFQ or even a request for information?

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  22. #94
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    maybe not a fair comparison but we just bought a new Amada and it is beautiful! the poor old diacro is looking pretty sad

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  24. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by surplusjohn View Post
    maybe not a fair comparison but we just bought a new Amada and it is beautiful! the poor old diacro is looking pretty sad
    Keeping or selling the Diacro?

  25. #96
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    Not possible to compare a Diacro to an Amada.

  26. #97
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    the Diacro will be for sale soon. 35 ton, 8 ft, good condition other than the standard slow oil leaks.
    I wasn't really comparing the DiAcro to the Amada, Lets say the Amada makes the Accupress look pretty sad. are you reinforcing my point or being pendatic?
    the point is that the Amada is a pretty nice machine.

  27. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    Not possible to compare a Diacro to an Amada.
    Quote Originally Posted by surplusjohn View Post
    I wasn't really comparing the DiAcro to the Amada, Lets say the Amada makes the Accupress look pretty sad. are you reinforcing my point or being pendatic? the point is that the Amada is a pretty nice machine.
    Any Press Brake is worthless with the wrong Set-up Person or Operator.

    Give me a guy that can fabricate anything on an old Diacro or Accupress and I will buy him the Amada and Tooling package of his choice...

    I love the new Technology...I just don't like how much it has dumbed down the craftsmanship. The new ATC's do nothing to develop the thought process on how to make a part at the floor level and we as fabricators are becoming weaker. It is a tough call...and I am just as guilty. We have 26 Amada's and a Safan running. The last Diacro went out of here about 15 years ago. I took the last Accupress home 3 years ago.

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  29. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    I've been really busy and have not been on lately.

    To clarify everything: There are a few things that still need to be addressed, the rep that came out to show me how to run the machine was great, he is working with me and I'm still waiting for some new machined upper die pinch point plates that securely hold the upper segmented dies in place and there's one other minor thing that I need to talk to them about.

    From the little bit that I've used it, it does what I need it to do... to be fair, I need to give them time to make things right.

    As far as the machine being a show room special, I looked at a smaller machine at the show and ordered a bigger one when I was there.

    In the end, all I want is a machine that does what I need it to do, do I need a need a machine that holds .0004 ( NO ), do I need a machine that does a repeatable bend within a few thousandths, ( YES ).
    That will make you chase your tail with a frustrating ending. For many things a general welding shop does that machine will serve you fine. With bottom bending.
    Your material thickness varies more than a few thou, and from edge to edge. Repeat ability of the upper ram is .00x,.0xx, .000x? And then factor in american precision tooling at +-.004? This is the tooling that is supplied in long lengths or chopped to length by your supplier. It all adds up.
    But your machine can and will make great parts. And can make the same parts as an Amada or a Trumpf. Just do not expect it to make them as fast, or as done right the first time.

  30. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    That will make you chase your tail with a frustrating ending. For many things a general welding shop does that machine will serve you fine. With bottom bending.
    Your material thickness varies more than a few thou, and from edge to edge. Repeat ability of the upper ram is .00x,.0xx, .000x? And then factor in american precision tooling at +-.004? This is the tooling that is supplied in long lengths or chopped to length by your supplier. It all adds up.
    But your machine can and will make great parts. And can make the same parts as an Amada or a Trumpf. Just do not expect it to make them as fast, or as done right the first time.
    Bottom bending is expensive . You need a different die for every angle.

    I don't see what is supposedly so difficult about air bending. With our used hydraulic press brake we were able to just tighten a few things up and adjust everything to where we get within half of a degree on all of our parts, even with narrower than recommended V-dies. (The first few bends are further off, of course).


    I don't know how well this particular press brake does in terms of ram repeatability though.

    You can also get American tooling in the same tolerance as European tooling, which should be much better than 0.004".


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