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This is not your daddy's press brake

1953chevB said:
this is almost cheating, I like this machine but $$$$$$$:eek:
MP3003 CNC PRESS BRAKE NARGESA - TUTORIAL: LEARN HOW TO FOLD METAL SHEET EASILY - YouTube
Click to expand...

I kinda like you chevb, no matter what diggerthedug says about you. Heck at one time light years ago I owned 4 '54's simultaneously.
You know, the '57's ugly older sister. I've even got a couple 454's around still. And a super T10. See what I did there?
If only my ADD was more tolerable, it'd make it easier to watch the video. I'd love to be able to work.....heck...volunteer in a shop for a month with a similar machine and a seasoned operator, just to soak up what info I could. I do think I'd pick up things much faster if I had a pair of those black pants with the red stripes like those dudes are wearing in the video.
 
dkmc said:
I kinda like you chevb, no matter what diggerthedug says about you. Heck at one time light years ago I owned 4 '54's simultaneously.
You know, the '57's ugly older sister. I've even got a couple 454's around still. And a super T10. See what I did there?
If only my ADD was more tolerable, it'd make it easier to watch the video. I'd love to be able to work.....heck...volunteer in a shop for a month with a similar machine and a seasoned operator, just to soak up what info I could. I do think I'd pick up things much faster if I had a pair of those black pants with the red stripes like those dudes are wearing in the video.
Click to expand...
LOL no worries , if had that back in the bad old days,
but what they can't take from us the freedom we had back then compared to now.
and our experience, and memories :D
 
DanielG said:
What's the flip-up thing in the front at 0:33?
Click to expand...
I believe it's angle gage to measure the angle at real time , there for no compensation required.
some of the other CNC Press Breaks the angle required a correction MDI which is nifty too.
 
I believe that's a bend gauge. Necessary for tight tolerance work. you notice they are bending both across the grain and with the grain, so each direction will need a slightly different bend depth.

Edit, I see 53 is faster than I.
 
DanielG said:
What's the flip-up thing in the front at 0:33?
Click to expand...

Flip up thingy measures the angle and compensates in real time. They all slow the bending process a bit. Some use lasers and Trumph uses a measuring device mounted between two punches, and it is very thin. Amada has a hand held device that will measure the angle when you take the piece out. That device has a bluetooth? interface and sends the information back to the control.
 
Anyone that has spent a lot of time in front of a press brake will immediately see the potential for something like that.

Even a brand new machine holding 0.0002" (two tenths) accuracy with brand new tooling will see +- 1 or 2 degrees depending on the material tensile strength, thickness variations, grain direction, political leanings, and velocity of Jupiter's third moon. Talk about chasing your tail....:ack2:

That's why a machinist does not necessarily make a great press brake operator.
 
ChipSplitter said:
Anyone that has spent a lot of time in front of a press brake will immediately see the potential for something like that.

Even a brand new machine holding 0.0002" (two tenths) accuracy with brand new tooling will see +- 1 or 2 degrees depending on the material tensile strength, thickness variations, grain direction, political leanings, and velocity of Jupiter's third moon. Talk about chasing your tail....:ack2:

That's why a machinist does not necessarily make a great press brake operator.
Click to expand...

lol, we can dream
 
ChipSplitter said:
Anyone that has spent a lot of time in front of a press brake will immediately see the potential for something like that.

Even a brand new machine holding 0.0002" (two tenths) accuracy with brand new tooling will see +- 1 or 2 degrees depending on the material tensile strength, thickness variations, grain direction, political leanings, and velocity of Jupiter's third moon. Talk about chasing your tail....:ack2:

That's why a machinist does not necessarily make a great press brake operator.
Click to expand...

I have CNC VMCS and Multi axis lathes, but am not a machinist. But I can make chips and can do hard milling. And so much CNC applied to sheet metal machines! But sheet metal is a whole lot of science, with a good helping of Voodoo, Black Magic. Repeat jobs with the same material, but different lot, yes and different results. First part off gets inspected and changes made.
 
While it's very nice, I see you still must change the lower die for various bends.

Something like a roto die bottom, or a Speedy Bender sliding die bed would certainly speed up that aspect
of the operations.
 
digger doug said:
While it's very nice, I see you still must change the lower die for various bends.

Something like a roto die bottom, or a Speedy Bender sliding die bed would certainly speed up that aspect
of the operations.
Click to expand...

Punches and dies need to be changed a lot, but sectional tooling keeps the weights low. I have a few 500mm goose neck punches that are a bit on the heavy side, and some 500mm x 24mm dies too. For most sheet metal thinner than 10 gauge I use an acute angle punch with a 1mm nose radius. Or a goose neck with the same radius. And they are the same height so I can have them right next to each other, and also turn them around if need be. Dies are dependent on material thickness, but I use a 12mm for most work and move to a 24 for 10g. I do all air bending. I have a 10' machine and often have 3 different punch/die setups across the bed. Because some flanges on a part need a specific punch or die length.
Sectional precision tooling is $$$, $25-50 per inch! Trumpf has just come out with a new version of the machine that I have for a whole lot less $. Entry level machine and sold online only. No salesman, no sales engineer. $99,000.00? Not with the features on my machine, but same multi axis back gauge. They make it only one way, no options. Takes longer to change punches as there is a different punch holder that uses an allen wrench.
I looked at Amada and Trumpf before I bought. The Amada was an 8' "C" frame machine. It had a nicer back gauge, but being a "C" frame limited the left/right movement of the stops to about 66" total. That would seriously limit multi position bending. It was less $ and tooling was also less. But the footprint of that machine was bigger than the Trumpf 10'. The Trumpf is an end frame machine and the back gauge covers almost the entire length.
 
Scruffy887 said:
Punches and dies need to be changed a lot, but sectional tooling keeps the weights low.
Click to expand...

The fact of the matter is the machine is still not "1 part made complete before setting it down"

CNC back gages, and CNC ram control are great tools to help enable multiple bends in 1 part,
but the addition of a CNC bottom die change would finish the job.

Like this dumb 50 year old press brake:
chicago speedy bender die change
FF to 00:14

Move the dies with CNC either front/back, or rotate them under like a roto die.
 
Last edited:
Press Brake

the advances in tooling is so far advance than what there was 40-50 years ago.
I believe there is a balance of the dollars spent vs the return.EG cost of owner ship.
This has nothing to do with sheet metal fab shop but does have the same business concept.
I work with a brilliant man who started with two screw machines, and build it to a multi million
shop. he had old cam style screw machines 30 years old a the time. he would run jobs on that machine
and it ran and ran, minimal tool changes. use micro carbide bits. these were tough to setup screw machines
and were not cost effective for short runs. but had a niche to fill.
then he had state of the art 8 axis , dual spindle with live tools, and state of the art VMC and would run parts
almost finished, when the work was completed. he would buy new machines as such and his customers would load
it up as soon it was up and running. his minimum lot sizes were 500 parts minimum.

we would have discussion about his philosophy why did what he did.

a new machine can be very expensive yet he could make the parts at less cost to the customer.
in other words just be cause the equipment was more expensive it could and did make the parts at a lower cost.
which also means more in the green eg higher profit. OK enough said

any thing CNC to these days will be most cost effect than it was in the old days,
OK enough said, I don't want sound like pita.
Be safe
 
digger doug said:
The fact of the matter is the machine is still not "1 part made complete before setting it down"
Click to expand...

Yes it is. With common shut height tooling, you simply set up all the various tools down the length of the bed, in individual 'stations,' then with CNC Z axis, the control automatically moves the backgauge fingers down the line to each station. Pick up the part at one end of the machine, run it down all the stations, put it down at the other end.
 
Fish On said:
Yes it is. With common shut height tooling, you simply set up all the various tools down the length of the bed, in individual 'stations,' then with CNC Z axis, the control automatically moves the backgauge fingers down the line to each station. Pick up the part at one end of the machine, run it down all the stations, put it down at the other end.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've seen it done, but it takes a large run to pay for all that extra set up time.

And you can't use the full width of the machine for each bend.

For short runs, using a standard punch & die, this new machine has CNC control on both punch stroke as well as back gage.
They should be able to accommodate the moving bottom die with CNC as well.
 
digger doug said:
Yes, I've seen it done, but it takes a large run to pay for all that extra set up time.

And you can't use the full width of the machine for each bend.

For short runs, using a standard punch & die, this new machine has CNC control on both punch stroke as well as back gage.
They should be able to accommodate the moving bottom die with CNC as well.
Click to expand...

Ah, but did you ever see a pressbrake with an ATC? Modular Tool Changer – Bystronic

Now that is awesome!

Some shops are to the point where the operator scans a barcode (etched by the laser), it loads the program, loads the tooling, and even has lights to show the operator where the part needs to be inserted for each bend. See the video at the bottom of this page: Xpert 40 & Xpert 80 – Bystronic

Bystronic also has a laser angle measuring system that doesn't slow the bend process down... :drool5:
 
digger doug said:
Yes, I've seen it done, but it takes a large run to pay for all that extra set up time.

And you can't use the full width of the machine for each bend.

For short runs, using a standard punch & die, this new machine has CNC control on both punch stroke as well as back gage.
They should be able to accommodate the moving bottom die with CNC as well.
Click to expand...

Trumpf makes such a machine. 5000 series. My guess they start at 250k or more. I have no idea why you would need that.
 
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