This is not your daddy's press brake
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 35
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    488
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    176
    Likes (Received)
    93

    Default This is not your daddy's press brake


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Upstate NY -In the Flats next to the corn fields
    Posts
    9,364
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1683
    Likes (Received)
    2669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1953chevB View Post
    I kinda like you chevb, no matter what diggerthedug says about you. Heck at one time light years ago I owned 4 '54's simultaneously.
    You know, the '57's ugly older sister. I've even got a couple 454's around still. And a super T10. See what I did there?
    If only my ADD was more tolerable, it'd make it easier to watch the video. I'd love to be able to work.....heck...volunteer in a shop for a month with a similar machine and a seasoned operator, just to soak up what info I could. I do think I'd pick up things much faster if I had a pair of those black pants with the red stripes like those dudes are wearing in the video.

  3. Likes 1953chevB, Dualkit liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    488
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    176
    Likes (Received)
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    I kinda like you chevb, no matter what diggerthedug says about you. Heck at one time light years ago I owned 4 '54's simultaneously.
    You know, the '57's ugly older sister. I've even got a couple 454's around still. And a super T10. See what I did there?
    If only my ADD was more tolerable, it'd make it easier to watch the video. I'd love to be able to work.....heck...volunteer in a shop for a month with a similar machine and a seasoned operator, just to soak up what info I could. I do think I'd pick up things much faster if I had a pair of those black pants with the red stripes like those dudes are wearing in the video.
    LOL no worries , if had that back in the bad old days,
    but what they can't take from us the freedom we had back then compared to now.
    and our experience, and memories

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    488
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    176
    Likes (Received)
    93

    Default Easy Pieze

    Dang this makes it easy, love this machine,
    Amada HG 1003 Cnc Press Brake - YouTube

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maine
    Posts
    1,273
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    243
    Likes (Received)
    618

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1953chevB View Post
    Dang this makes it easy, love this machine,
    Amada HG 1003 Cnc Press Brake - YouTube
    What's the flip-up thing in the front at 0:33?

  7. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    488
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    176
    Likes (Received)
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    What's the flip-up thing in the front at 0:33?
    I believe it's angle gage to measure the angle at real time , there for no compensation required.
    some of the other CNC Press Breaks the angle required a correction MDI which is nifty too.

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    8,336
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    554
    Likes (Received)
    4098

    Default

    I believe that's a bend gauge. Necessary for tight tolerance work. you notice they are bending both across the grain and with the grain, so each direction will need a slightly different bend depth.

    Edit, I see 53 is faster than I.

  10. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  11. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Se Ma USA
    Posts
    1,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    155
    Likes (Received)
    1048

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    What's the flip-up thing in the front at 0:33?
    Flip up thingy measures the angle and compensates in real time. They all slow the bending process a bit. Some use lasers and Trumph uses a measuring device mounted between two punches, and it is very thin. Amada has a hand held device that will measure the angle when you take the piece out. That device has a bluetooth? interface and sends the information back to the control.

  12. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  13. #9
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1401
    Likes (Received)
    1918

    Default

    Anyone that has spent a lot of time in front of a press brake will immediately see the potential for something like that.

    Even a brand new machine holding 0.0002" (two tenths) accuracy with brand new tooling will see +- 1 or 2 degrees depending on the material tensile strength, thickness variations, grain direction, political leanings, and velocity of Jupiter's third moon. Talk about chasing your tail....

    That's why a machinist does not necessarily make a great press brake operator.

  14. Likes 1953chevB, dkmc liked this post
  15. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    488
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    176
    Likes (Received)
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Anyone that has spent a lot of time in front of a press brake will immediately see the potential for something like that.

    Even a brand new machine holding 0.0002" (two tenths) accuracy with brand new tooling will see +- 1 or 2 degrees depending on the material tensile strength, thickness variations, grain direction, political leanings, and velocity of Jupiter's third moon. Talk about chasing your tail....

    That's why a machinist does not necessarily make a great press brake operator.
    lol, we can dream

  16. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Se Ma USA
    Posts
    1,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    155
    Likes (Received)
    1048

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Anyone that has spent a lot of time in front of a press brake will immediately see the potential for something like that.

    Even a brand new machine holding 0.0002" (two tenths) accuracy with brand new tooling will see +- 1 or 2 degrees depending on the material tensile strength, thickness variations, grain direction, political leanings, and velocity of Jupiter's third moon. Talk about chasing your tail....

    That's why a machinist does not necessarily make a great press brake operator.
    I have CNC VMCS and Multi axis lathes, but am not a machinist. But I can make chips and can do hard milling. And so much CNC applied to sheet metal machines! But sheet metal is a whole lot of science, with a good helping of Voodoo, Black Magic. Repeat jobs with the same material, but different lot, yes and different results. First part off gets inspected and changes made.

  17. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  18. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    20,200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    While it's very nice, I see you still must change the lower die for various bends.

    Something like a roto die bottom, or a Speedy Bender sliding die bed would certainly speed up that aspect
    of the operations.

  19. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  20. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Se Ma USA
    Posts
    1,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    155
    Likes (Received)
    1048

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    While it's very nice, I see you still must change the lower die for various bends.

    Something like a roto die bottom, or a Speedy Bender sliding die bed would certainly speed up that aspect
    of the operations.
    Punches and dies need to be changed a lot, but sectional tooling keeps the weights low. I have a few 500mm goose neck punches that are a bit on the heavy side, and some 500mm x 24mm dies too. For most sheet metal thinner than 10 gauge I use an acute angle punch with a 1mm nose radius. Or a goose neck with the same radius. And they are the same height so I can have them right next to each other, and also turn them around if need be. Dies are dependent on material thickness, but I use a 12mm for most work and move to a 24 for 10g. I do all air bending. I have a 10' machine and often have 3 different punch/die setups across the bed. Because some flanges on a part need a specific punch or die length.
    Sectional precision tooling is $$$, $25-50 per inch! Trumpf has just come out with a new version of the machine that I have for a whole lot less $. Entry level machine and sold online only. No salesman, no sales engineer. $99,000.00? Not with the features on my machine, but same multi axis back gauge. They make it only one way, no options. Takes longer to change punches as there is a different punch holder that uses an allen wrench.
    I looked at Amada and Trumpf before I bought. The Amada was an 8' "C" frame machine. It had a nicer back gauge, but being a "C" frame limited the left/right movement of the stops to about 66" total. That would seriously limit multi position bending. It was less $ and tooling was also less. But the footprint of that machine was bigger than the Trumpf 10'. The Trumpf is an end frame machine and the back gauge covers almost the entire length.

  21. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  22. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    20,200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    Punches and dies need to be changed a lot, but sectional tooling keeps the weights low.
    The fact of the matter is the machine is still not "1 part made complete before setting it down"

    CNC back gages, and CNC ram control are great tools to help enable multiple bends in 1 part,
    but the addition of a CNC bottom die change would finish the job.

    Like this dumb 50 year old press brake:
    chicago speedy bender die change
    FF to 00:14

    Move the dies with CNC either front/back, or rotate them under like a roto die.
    Last edited by digger doug; 08-18-2020 at 12:28 PM.

  23. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  24. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,248
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3695
    Likes (Received)
    2792

  25. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  26. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    488
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    176
    Likes (Received)
    93

    Default Press Brake

    the advances in tooling is so far advance than what there was 40-50 years ago.
    I believe there is a balance of the dollars spent vs the return.EG cost of owner ship.
    This has nothing to do with sheet metal fab shop but does have the same business concept.
    I work with a brilliant man who started with two screw machines, and build it to a multi million
    shop. he had old cam style screw machines 30 years old a the time. he would run jobs on that machine
    and it ran and ran, minimal tool changes. use micro carbide bits. these were tough to setup screw machines
    and were not cost effective for short runs. but had a niche to fill.
    then he had state of the art 8 axis , dual spindle with live tools, and state of the art VMC and would run parts
    almost finished, when the work was completed. he would buy new machines as such and his customers would load
    it up as soon it was up and running. his minimum lot sizes were 500 parts minimum.

    we would have discussion about his philosophy why did what he did.

    a new machine can be very expensive yet he could make the parts at less cost to the customer.
    in other words just be cause the equipment was more expensive it could and did make the parts at a lower cost.
    which also means more in the green eg higher profit. OK enough said

    any thing CNC to these days will be most cost effect than it was in the old days,
    OK enough said, I don't want sound like pita.
    Be safe

  27. Likes toolsteel liked this post
  28. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Cartersville, Ga
    Posts
    411
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    150
    Likes (Received)
    246

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    The fact of the matter is the machine is still not "1 part made complete before setting it down"
    Yes it is. With common shut height tooling, you simply set up all the various tools down the length of the bed, in individual 'stations,' then with CNC Z axis, the control automatically moves the backgauge fingers down the line to each station. Pick up the part at one end of the machine, run it down all the stations, put it down at the other end.

  29. Likes 1953chevB, Scruffy887, gustafson liked this post
  30. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    20,200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish On View Post
    Yes it is. With common shut height tooling, you simply set up all the various tools down the length of the bed, in individual 'stations,' then with CNC Z axis, the control automatically moves the backgauge fingers down the line to each station. Pick up the part at one end of the machine, run it down all the stations, put it down at the other end.
    Yes, I've seen it done, but it takes a large run to pay for all that extra set up time.

    And you can't use the full width of the machine for each bend.

    For short runs, using a standard punch & die, this new machine has CNC control on both punch stroke as well as back gage.
    They should be able to accommodate the moving bottom die with CNC as well.

  31. #19
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1401
    Likes (Received)
    1918

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yes, I've seen it done, but it takes a large run to pay for all that extra set up time.

    And you can't use the full width of the machine for each bend.

    For short runs, using a standard punch & die, this new machine has CNC control on both punch stroke as well as back gage.
    They should be able to accommodate the moving bottom die with CNC as well.
    Ah, but did you ever see a pressbrake with an ATC? Modular Tool Changer – Bystronic

    Now that is awesome!

    Some shops are to the point where the operator scans a barcode (etched by the laser), it loads the program, loads the tooling, and even has lights to show the operator where the part needs to be inserted for each bend. See the video at the bottom of this page: Xpert 40 & Xpert 80 – Bystronic

    Bystronic also has a laser angle measuring system that doesn't slow the bend process down...

  32. Likes 1953chevB liked this post
  33. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Se Ma USA
    Posts
    1,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    155
    Likes (Received)
    1048

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yes, I've seen it done, but it takes a large run to pay for all that extra set up time.

    And you can't use the full width of the machine for each bend.

    For short runs, using a standard punch & die, this new machine has CNC control on both punch stroke as well as back gage.
    They should be able to accommodate the moving bottom die with CNC as well.
    Trumpf makes such a machine. 5000 series. My guess they start at 250k or more. I have no idea why you would need that.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •