OK now I can spray arc weld. Now what?
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  1. #1
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    Default OK now I can spray arc weld. Now what?

    I'm not a professional welder, although for a time I had certification and did architectural steel fab. My main welding process in the last 15 years has been short-circuit MIG. My current main welder is a Millermatic 252.

    Two things happened that got me interested in spray arc welding. First, I found a gas mixer that yields me C10 and C2 gas mixes among others. Second, I found a guy who bought a Powcon welder with wire feeder back in the late '80s, tried welding for maybe an hour, decided he'd get back to it later and put a tarp over it. He never touched it again until he sold it to me a few months ago.

    I've had lots of other things going on but have slowly made progress. Yesterday I finished swapping the little Tweco gun that came on the Powcon feeder for a 450 amp Tregaskiss Toughgun which can stand up to the heat of spray arc welding (MIG welding in spray mode) all day long. And I finally chased the last leaks out of my gas mixing setup. Then I was able to enter spray mode easily, although I believe I still have fine tuning to do with the weld parameters.

    So now that I can weld in spray mode, should I design weldments differently? Can I tack weld in spray mode, or should I set the machine back to SC mode for tacking? If I try to weld a butt joint with 1/16" gap using spray arc, is it likely to blow through?

    I am used to setting up welding sequences to maximize welding in the horizontal position.

    An upcoming project is a 5x10' flatbed utility trailer. I need to understand designing for spray arc better before I can commit several hundred dollars worth of steel to a project.

    Any comments would be appreciated, thanks.

    metalmagpie

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    1. It's hot
    2. It's wet

    so a 5 x 10 trailer might not be thick enough to handle spray.
    Unless your welding 1/4" thick and up.

    You won't be able to run up (or down) much, so might figure on putting it
    in a rotisserie.

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    Or get some dual shield and forget the hardwire (that is unless you can pulse it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderjosh View Post
    Or get some dual shield and forget the hardwire (that is unless you can pulse it).
    So you want the OP to spend even more money ?....

    You workin' for "Blue" or "Red" ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    So you want the OP to spend even more money ?....

    You workin' for "Blue" or "Red" ?
    I'm confused as to the aggression. Dual shield (0.045) is an easy way to spray weld on trailer thickness materials and is a process/filler that lends itself to out of position work much better than spraying hard wire. The exception to this is if you can pulse that hard wire. I should have been more specific in my answer and you added nothing to the conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderjosh View Post
    I'm confused as to the aggression. Dual shield (0.045) is an easy way to spray weld on trailer thickness materials and is a process/filler that lends itself to out of position work much better than spraying hard wire. The exception to this is if you can pulse that hard wire. I should have been more specific in my answer and you added nothing to the conversation.
    The OP has finally spent some money on a gas mixer.

    You want them to either:
    1. Spend more money on a expensive wizz bang pulse welder.
    2. Spend more money on flux core wire (special wire).

    Can't help the OP out without suggesting spending more money eh ?

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    Sorry buddy but wizz bang is where we are all headed if we are serious about making money fabricating. We aren't all working on manual machines any longer either even though CNC isn't free. Technology moves productivity forward all of the time and pulse is a game changer. I understand that not everyone will get on board with the new technologies but I was just letting it be known that spray hard wire could be more easily done out of position with pulse. I don't care how the OP spends his money. I wish him all of the luck on his endeavors. Just trying to be helpful. Also, flux core wire is hardly "special". Sorry for the insight, I'll keep my opinion to myself next time.

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    Josh, I've been wanting to try some D/S wire in my PowerMig256 for lightish weldments in the 1/8-1/4" thick range.

    What wire would you suggest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderjosh View Post
    Sorry for the insight, I'll keep my opinion to myself next time.
    Best just to ignore him. He's kind of like a hippo. Shits on everything and mean as hell. Though fun to watch as long as he's not aimed at you.

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    It sounds like you are not doing very thick work. Spray transfer is nice cause of the reduced spatter and increased penetration. I would suggest setting up with 0.023" wire for spray transfer based on you wanting to weld thin material with spray. You can always turn up the feed and down the voltage and still run the c10 with short circuit if you are having issues with too much heat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderjosh View Post
    Or get some dual shield and forget the hardwire (that is unless you can pulse it).
    Quote Originally Posted by welderjosh View Post
    I'm confused as to the aggression. Dual shield (0.045) is an easy way to spray weld on trailer thickness materials and is a process/filler that lends itself to out of position work much better than spraying hard wire. The exception to this is if you can pulse that hard wire. I should have been more specific in my answer and you added nothing to the conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by welderjosh View Post
    Sorry buddy but wizz bang is where we are all headed if we are serious about making money fabricating. We aren't all working on manual machines any longer either even though CNC isn't free. Technology moves productivity forward all of the time and pulse is a game changer. I understand that not everyone will get on board with the new technologies but I was just letting it be known that spray hard wire could be more easily done out of position with pulse. I don't care how the OP spends his money. I wish him all of the luck on his endeavors. Just trying to be helpful. Also, flux core wire is hardly "special". Sorry for the insight, I'll keep my opinion to myself next time.

    Really ?

    I suggested that the OP might be able to do the job, and suggested how they might
    accomplish it. Although it's a bit on the hot side.

    YOU suggested that they cannot. And needed different wire and/or machine.

    WHO is adding anything to the OP's question ?

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    Also the only time I ever run dual shield is if I can't get out of the wind but need to be faster than stick welding.....ie bucket, blade work. Luckily those days are behind me, if I'm welding now its usually Aluminum, SS or exotics with my Dynasty DX on a bench

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Josh, I've been wanting to try some D/S wire in my PowerMig256 for lightish weldments in the 1/8-1/4" thick range.

    What wire would you suggest?
    We use primarily Lincoln HD12M here. It's a high deposition 75/25 dual shield wire that we use by the pallet. We started using it for large mine repair projects and the guys have come to like the high deposition characteristics. We sometimes will run Esab 7100 if we by chance run out of the HD12M but the guys on the floor don't like it as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderjosh View Post
    We use primarily Lincoln HD12M here. It's a high deposition 75/25 dual shield wire that we use by the pallet. We started using it for large mine repair projects and the guys have come to like the high deposition characteristics. We sometimes will run Esab 7100 if we by chance run out of the HD12M but the guys on the floor don't like it as much.
    Good looking wire, but my machine maxes out right around the min voltage req's. I'm going to try some .045" UltraCore 71A75.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Good looking wire, but my machine maxes out right around the min voltage req's. I'm going to try some .045" UltraCore 71A75.
    We use the 0.045 in some consumer grade 250 amp machines (Millermatic 252 and Lincoln Power MIG 255) but it's about all they want. I know you can get some wires in 0.035 also, I'm just not sure of any specific examples off the top of my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderjosh View Post
    We use the 0.045 in some consumer grade 250 amp machines (Millermatic 252 and Lincoln Power MIG 255) but it's about all they want. I know you can get some wires in 0.035 also, I'm just not sure of any specific examples off the top of my head.
    I had some .035 blue demon dual shield wire that I played with in my 210 miller that seemed to work pretty well.

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    If your machine can run .045 wire it is probably the cheapest to buy. The smaller wires are more $ per pound. Good 200 amps should do it.


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