Old Timers: Ron Fournier and the Absence of early 80's 5052???

Hi all, thanks to great suggestions from PM here I got Ron Fouriner's 1982 book on sheet metal (via Abebooks.com), which is very good. Anyway, one surprising thing is he discusses different types of aluminum sheet, notably 6061 T4, T6 and -O, and 3000 series. Nowhere however does he talk about 5052. I am quite curious about this because nowadays it seems 3000 is still best for serious forming projects with curves and such, but 5052 is the obvious choice for most formed and welded parts like tanks and even boats. I was wondering if someone who was around at the time (I was in grade 7) knows anything about this. Was 5052 super rare then? Or was it common but serious forming pros didn't use it? This got me wondering about aluminum boats as I sort of feel they weren't that common in those days whereas now every work boat made under say 35 feet is pretty much aluminum. Any historical reminiscences would be welcome!

I have his book on race car fabrication.

Awesome book and he is a master fabricator.

I think the book was written in the late 70s. It's pretty hilarious by today's standards. I remember in one section he discusses how a typical Indy car is designed by a few engineers and built by one guy. He shows a picture of one that he built himself.

Compare that to something like Formula 1 today. Something as benign as a bulkhead or wheel upright might involve dozens of engineers and trades, and hundreds of prototypes.

I'v had that book since the early 80's, mabey late 70's. We used 5052 for the tunnels on Kawasaki Snowmobiles in the late 70's till about '82 when they closed up.

ewlsey said:

Something as benign as a bulkhead or wheel upright might involve dozens of engineers and trades, and hundreds of prototypes.

Click to expand...

And the more engineers they add, the worse the racing gets and the fewer the people who go


No engineers. Now if they could figure out how to muzzle the announcers ...

USAC Midgets at Ventura

Then again, if you look at the Robert Wickens crash this weekend you are pretty grateful for carbon fiber monocoques. Interesting note about the Kawasaki snowmobiles.

rcoope said:

Then again, if you look at the Robert Wickens crash this weekend you are pretty grateful for carbon fiber monocoques. Interesting note about the Kawasaki snowmobiles.

Click to expand...

Robert is pretty beat up But he is alive and will recover. As much as I love the old school aluminum tubs I am glad they are gone. Had he been in he would be dead for sure.

I bought, formed and welded a lot of 5052 in the 70s and 80s - nothing rare about it then or now.
A great aluminum alloy, better than 6061 for tanks

3003 and 6061-0 is better for spinning

I actually took a week long workshop with Ron, and dont remember him mentioning 5052. But my guess is that he just didnt like it as much as 3003. He was all about gas welding aluminum, not tig, as he felt that tig welding left a heat affected zone that he could not shape properly.
His whole approach to teaching was that he had found a series of techniques that worked well, and he taught those.
He wasnt trying to teach every possible technique.

He liked to gas weld with the Dillon/Henrob style torch, 3003, because after welding, he would often hammer into a shot bag, use a leather covered slapper, or even english wheel the weld. His gas welded 3003 would stand up to that, as if it was a section of unwelded virgin sheet. I would suspect that he had tried 5052, and just didnt find it as malleable after welding.

I know you CAN gas weld 5052. Tinman Tech (Kent White, a contemporary and equal to Ron) sells a flux for it, and filler wire (mig spools).

But Ron was just old school. He was incredibly good at what he did, and really fun to watch, and he taught that. I learned a lot from him, and while I only dabble once in a while in raising and shaping sheet, I am still really glad I took the class.

I worked as an engineer in a sheet-metal fabricating shop for over 20 years that in 1985 did 8 million $ a year. I made parts from 5052H32 all time. 6061T6 is used for Extrusion, although the material is highly used for sheet-metal products; a much better choice is 5052H32 for general sheet-metal products by far. Forming, punching, drilling, tapping, welding; finishing. All Excellent. If I where going to build a boat it would be 5052H32 for its properties.
Roger

Aluminum Grades

rcoope said:

Hi all, thanks to great suggestions from PM here I got Ron Fouriner's 1982 book on sheet metal (via Abebooks.com), which is very good. Anyway, one surprising thing is he discusses different types of aluminum sheet, notably 6061 T4, T6 and -O, and 3000 series. Nowhere however does he talk about 5052. I am quite curious about this because nowadays it seems 3000 is still best for serious forming projects with curves and such, but 5052 is the obvious choice for most formed and welded parts like tanks and even boats. I was wondering if someone who was around at the time (I was in grade 7) knows anything about this. Was 5052 super rare then? Or was it common but serious forming pros didn't use it? This got me wondering about aluminum boats as I sort of feel they weren't that common in those days whereas now every work boat made under say 35 feet is pretty much aluminum. Any historical reminiscences would be welcome!

Click to expand...

When a shop has good results with an Aluminum grade; human nature kicks in and the shop uses what-ever they have had good results. That may not be the best choice for the engineering requirements. 5052 is great for forming and welding. We used 5052 as the material of choice for sheet products, cabinets, chassis, etc. I was an engineer for a large sheet metal fabricating shop at the time period of your interest. There is a need for improved education when it comes to Aluminum grade knowledge.

Roger

EmanuelGoldstein said:

...Now if they could figure out how to muzzle the announcers...

Click to expand...

You think that's irritating? Listen to this guy. Take special notice of his voice about 1:25 when a car goes into the
wall...

World of Outlaws Craftsman Sprint Cars The Dirt Track at Charlotte November 3, 218 | HIGHLIGHTS - YouTube

I worked for Ron in the late 80's...He just liked 3003 H14, and 6061...he was very familiar with them , and they are readily available at the Metal supply yards around Detroit... they could get you 5052, but they had 3003...or 6061...I miss working for him , but I learned a ton from him while I worked with him .I am actually in the 2nd book , holding a tape measure by a gas tank we fabbed in the shop..great times!