Plasma cutter pros and cons

Hey all,

Thinking about getting a plasma cutter for our shop. And I have a ton of questions. We are looking at the Plasma CAM (does anyone have any experience with it?) and not sure where to begin. Looks like a fantastic machine/tool, but I don't know much about plasma cutting, especially why you would choose such an inexpensive cutting tool over something like water jet or laser jet.

Can anyone point me in a good direction to get started? I want to learn more about the pros and cons of plasma cutting. We'd be cutting aluminum and steel, and probably wouldn't ever go over 1/2" in thickness.

Thanks for any help... even a push in a direction will be great.

Jon

1/2" in steel or alu? Thats averagely thin in steel, but thick - heavy going in alu. Ruff rule of thumb cutting alu takes about 100% more power than steel for a given thickness, hence if you want to process 1/2 alu your probably looking at a 1" steel capability.

". . . I don't know much about plasma cutting, especially why you would choose such an inexpensive cutting tool over something like water jet or laser jet."

The lower cost is the reason to choose plasma. If money is not a concern, laser is both much cleaner and more accurate.

We don't do a ton of steel cutting, but when we do it's around 1/8". Most of the aluminum we cut is 3/16"-3/8". On occasion we'll cut something thicker, but not too often. Sounds like we need to account for the thickness of the aluminum, and the steel will fall under that. (I'm actually surprised by that, but hey, I don't know much about the hardness of each)

I did read through a few posts on this site, and found this one to be quite helpful on choosing a Plasma cutter:
• http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ons-wanted-254806/?highlight=plasma+pros+cons

I still don't understand the differences between plasma/water/laser... but I am finding that the things to think about in plasma cutters are:

• Z-axis control
• Dust and debris
• Stepper motor vs. servo motor
• CAM software
• Brand (USA made)
• Air compressors
• Material handling (how you handle it)

Trying to educate myself here...!
Thanks,
Jon

How are getting your burn parts now ?

If you presently get them laser cut, you may well be dis-appointed.

However, get some parts cut with the system you want to buy.

I've read %$#@! numbers of brochures and websites.

1/2 hour spent programming and running sample part taught
me :
1. What I want in a machine.
2. What I DON'T want in a machine.

We do one of two things. One, we cut our aluminum parts on a CNC router with a downshear bit. Very messy (metal bits everywhere), loud, lots of cleanup time, big interruption to our day. Anything we send out (more intricate aluminum cuts, many different cuts, and steel cuts) goes to a water jet cutter.

I'd love to try out a few machines. Any recommendations on how I can find one in my area? I only tried calling PlasmaCAM so far, and they said they would not release the names of their customers. I was thinking of calling a reseller of many different plasma cutters, see what they recommend, and try to find a demo unit. Anyone out there like that? Or any other ideas?

JOn

Ugh...finding a machine to try.

Not many I know of, I have heard (but not found one yet).

Your local Lincoln Electric dealer will be able to demo the Torchmate
machines.

Our LWS here in Erie, was all a flutter when lincoln bought Torchmate,
and promised they would have a working demo unit in there lab,
that we could all try....never showed up.

Mathison (IIRC they are down your way) also sells them.

Plasmacam I'm not so sure on finding one.

Make sure you don't just get a sample part in the mail, you want to
take a cad file, sit down with jockey, have him walk you through
what he does, burn YOUR parts.

If you need good holes, and need them spaced good, take in
a part file that test's that.

IMHO if your currently routing the alu and water jetting the steel, plasma is not going to be good enough. Laser probaly would but your not going to be getting one of thoes cheep!

One of the other shops over here has an older PlasmaCam machine, it will do good work if you get it setup right. He is looking at a new one and likes the new PlamaCam better than the Torchmate just for ease of programming/setup. If you are getting them water jetted, I can't see you liking a plasma machine either.

Thought I would reply as I am very familiar with all types of plasma, waterjet machines as well as laser cutting system. I work for Hypertherm and we have all three technologies in our product line...so we work hard to ensure that users of our equipment make the correct choices that best fit their needs.

I also have a home hobby shop that has 3 low cost cnc plasma machines, two are PlasmaCam brand and the third is Torchmate. Each is equipped with a Hypertherm air plasma cutting system.

Also, keep in mind that when we are talking about cnc plasma cutting, and comparing its cut quality, productivity, cutting cost, purchase price to industrial laser and abrasive water jet systems that we normally would compare a high definition class plasma to these other (laser waterjet) industrial cutting processes. Comparing an entry level cnc plasma such as a PlasmaCam (or Torchmate, or a dozen or so other brands) that costs less than $20k to laser and waterjets that start at $250k is just plain not an apples to apples comparison. Comparing an industrial high definition class plasma (such as a Hypertherm HPR260xd) to laser and abrasive waterjet is a better comparison. Each of these metal cutting processes will show advantages and disadvantages based on accuracy, productivity, versatility, purchase price, operating price, etc. None of them should be considered the best process for all cutting needs!

Here is a link to an article I wrote that was just published....comparing these 3 processes. FabShop Magazine - January 2014

I would be happy to discuss which types of machines you should be looking at, however the types of materials commonly cut, the maximum thickness and most common thicknesses required, as well as cut part accuracy, throughput (how fast), and operating cost (cost per foot of cut) requirements for your particular application would be necessary to steer you in the right direction. I will also be happy to discuss the capabilities of both the PlasmaCam and Torchmate machines that I have been using for over 15 years!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

jonkovach said:

Hey all,

Thinking about getting a plasma cutter for our shop. And I have a ton of questions. We are looking at the Plasma CAM (does anyone have any experience with it?) and not sure where to begin. Looks like a fantastic machine/tool, but I don't know much about plasma cutting, especially why you would choose such an inexpensive cutting tool over something like water jet or laser jet.

Can anyone point me in a good direction to get started? I want to learn more about the pros and cons of plasma cutting. We'd be cutting aluminum and steel, and probably wouldn't ever go over 1/2" in thickness.

Thanks for any help... even a push in a direction will be great.

Jon

Click to expand...

Parts cut on my PlasmaCam machine with a Hypertherm Powermax85 plasma cutter:

1st part is 1/4" steel, LS1 motor mount using tab and slot construction for easy weld fixturing. 2nd is a bracket cut from 3/16" 304 stainless. 3rd showing decent bolt hole quality on 1/4" steel. 4th is a lifting lug from 3/4" steel. 4th are parts cut from 1/2" steel, as cut.

I can't tell you what to look for, but I would stay away from Plasmacam. They seem pretty shifty to me. We had asked about using their machine as a router also, they said sure, it'll do that, but wouldn't prove it. Can't show customers machines, can't do it here, etc. Got a real bad feeling from them.

I totally disagree with you on PlasmaCam. I have owned their machines for over 15 years total.....great machines, even better software and great product support. They have a huge installed base of (mostly) happy customers! Their machines are not made for routers...they are made and sold as cnc plasma cutters. That being said I have seen numerous PlasmaCam users that have mounted small routers on their machines and succesfully achieve 2 dimensional routing for occasional use.

As far as not providing a customer contact list...that is just respecting their customer privacy. If you post on many of the online forums asking for PlasmaCam users and their feedback....you will find many, including me, that will offer good, bad and mediocre reports of their machines. Ask me anytime....I have broken mine a few times over the years!

There are some other companies out there that produce combination machines that can route and plasma cut....but since the speed, torque and software requirements are quite different for both processes....one or the other will certainly be compromised. Routers run at relatively low speeds and at higher torque levels. Plasma require high speeds, high accelleration as well as an indepentant arc voltage feedback height control system.....and a means to capture the smoke, fumes and molten metal.

Jim Colt

greggv said:

I can't tell you what to look for, but I would stay away from Plasmacam. They seem pretty shifty to me. We had asked about using their machine as a router also, they said sure, it'll do that, but wouldn't prove it. Can't show customers machines, can't do it here, etc. Got a real bad feeling from them.

Click to expand...

Well Jim,

How about these guys making there own plasma tables. I read that candcnc.com has good motors and software. Is this something to stay away from!!

CandCNC www.candcnc.com does not produce tables, but is arguably one of the best sources to get motors, drives, electronics, torch height control systems, cables and software for do it yourself tables. They also offer a lot of advice to help with building tables using their equipment. Another company, Precision Plasma LLC produces the mechanical parts (rails, gantry, torch carriage, z axis) that will bolt up to the CandCNC equipment.

Many build their own cnc plasma machines. Many more buy machines that are almost turnkey. I have done both, and while my builds turned out well....I had so much labor (assembly, testing, disassembly, tweak the design, reassembly, test!) in the DIY machines that in reality they cost me more than the good quality well known machines that I have purchased. The major manufacturers of entry level CNC plasma machines have large installed bases.....and over time have refined their designs to meet the needs of users.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

car said:

Well Jim,

How about these guys making there own plasma tables. I read that candcnc.com has good motors and software. Is this something to stay away from!!

Click to expand...

First off, Jim Colt is the absolute guru of plasma cutting. I've been reading his posts here and on other forums for years. He has been a valuable resource for me and the plasma cutting community.
Second, I work at a nuke plant. Several years ago I was tasked with selecting a plasma cutter for our shop. After going to several shops in the metroplex, I selected an Esab for around $145k. After procurement got thru with it, I received a Samson 510, with Plasmacam controls, and a hypertherm 1250 cutter. I almost cried.
That being said, the thing turned out to be one of my most valuable tools. So much so that I bought one for my home shop.
It is the easiest programing platform on the planet. Trust me, I know. My son's school bought one last year.
Here are some pictures of a residual heat removal pump mockup that is my curret project.

Jim,

So you think is is cheaper to buy one over building one? The fab part is no proble. But those wires is a No No for me. I have a machine shop and at times I'm too buzy to work on something like this. With your plasma cutter what table would you say to get. I could use nothing no smaller than 4 X 8.

jonkovach said:

Hey all,

Thinking about getting a plasma cutter for our shop. And I have a ton of questions. We are looking at the Plasma CAM (does anyone have any experience with it?) and not sure where to begin. Looks like a fantastic machine/tool, but I don't know much about plasma cutting, especially why you would choose such an inexpensive cutting tool over something like water jet or laser jet.

Can anyone point me in a good direction to get started? I want to learn more about the pros and cons of plasma cutting. We'd be cutting aluminum and steel, and probably wouldn't ever go over 1/2" in thickness.

Thanks for any help... even a push in a direction will be great.

Jon

Click to expand...

we have a farley cnc plasma and oxy fuel combo cutting machine, we would cut mostly 40 mm plate on the oxy fuel and then run that material on cnc mills lathes ect, our plasma handles any thing less than 15mm but the cut quality can start good when all your consumables are brand new after piercing 400+ holes in 12mm plate is the turning point for us you could get a large bevel on the cut and increased dross, but the machines are fantastic we looked at a punch, plasma, drill from ficep for our next machine big bucks thou

Ficep Tipo B254 - YouTube

It is cheaper to build one, if you don't figure for your labor. I know how long it took me to build the homebuilts that I built a few years back. The PlasmaCams that I bought definitely cost more but I was cutting metal the day I uncrated them. I did have an advantage being well versed in cnc plasma cutting, so learning curve was quick for me.....but generally anyone that buys a turnkey will be cutting weeks, maybe months before they would be if they scratch built a machine. I paid for my first PlasmaCam in 6 months doing night and weekend jobs for local weld and fab shops.

Jim Colt

car said:

Jim,

So you think is is cheaper to buy one over building one? The fab part is no proble. But those wires is a No No for me. I have a machine shop and at times I'm too buzy to work on something like this. With your plasma cutter what table would you say to get. I could use nothing no smaller than 4 X 8.

Click to expand...

I bought a Bulltear Gantry kit earlier last year. I built the frame and put everything together.


They use the candcnc kit and have a beefy gantry system.

I think it's the best overall value out there.

My build thread:

RLC Welding 5x10 Bulltear Gantry Build - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum