Press brake newbie - Need help... Going to buy a press brake for the first time.

Hi,

We have a small prototype shop and we want to have our own press brake and not always have to rely on external sources. Especially now when we plane to "mass" produce a sheet metal box.

We are located in Vietnam so it is fairly convenient for us to buy direct from China and get it over here by truck. We have looked at a few machines online. It looks like we are going for a "torsion-synchronized" 40T2500mm with 3 servo axes on Y+X+R and a TP10S control panel, for about $10,000 shipped over here.

We mostly need to bend small sheets but we plan to make some large stainless (1mm) workbenches, 2400mm long. The small items we have are 3mm 5052-36 aluminum not longer than 1200mm, but mostly only 100-300mm wide. and a few shorter 300mm 6mm aluminum.

This is my first press brake and looking for some advice:

1. What should we pay attention to?
2. What are the parts that they may cheap out on? It weighs 3200 kilo, is that enough?
3. Does one need crowning on such small machine?
4. Does such small machine need "electro-hydraulic-syncronisation" on Y1+Y2? It adds like $10,000 on to the price.
5. Im getting fast release clamps, segmented goose neck dies punches and dies, linear ball guides in fingers and front support as "free" extras. What else "extras" would one need than more punches and dies??
6. Most parts claims to be European/US branded ones.

All suggestions are highly appreciated. Thanks

Your pricing doesnt add up. You say 10k total and 10k for add ons.

2400 mm is not a small machine when dealing with crowning issues. 1200mm would not have to worry about it.

When it comes to quality for service and parts. You get what you pay for. Hydro stabilization sounds like a fancy way of saying we are doing what everyone else does to keep the cylinders in line but calling it a fancy term. If your ordering from cheapguytoolsatrockbottomprices.com then expect to have lots of issues.

A mechanical brake with a good rotating parts, works very well for thin parts. 1mm is 20 ga in US (.040). Crowning can be done simply by putting a shim under the bottom die.

If your making good production parts, looking at used but better quality is probably the way to go.



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3200 kilos doesn't seem out of the ordinary for a machine that size.

2400 mm is a fair bit of length in regard to needing crowning, but 40 tons isn't - you don't often see crowning on such small tonnage machines. I don't have crowning on a 2600mm 60t machine, and don't miss it, but I'm also not doing full length sections of thin stainless either. I do, however, bend quite a lot of .125" 5052 aluminum in the 4' range, effectively the same as your 1200mm of 3mm thickness, so if that's the primary usage, I wouldn't make crowning a priority.

I'm assuming the electro-hydraulic sync means it's adding a second Y axis (Y1 and Y2, one for each ram)? It sounds like it, and given the term 'torsion synchronized,' I'm guessing you're looking at somewhat of an Accurpress clone, where they otherwise use a big pipe on the rocker arms to keep both sides in sync, rather than controlling it via hydraulics.

If that's correct, then yes, get the upgrade. There's a reason pretty much the rest of the world uses separate ram axes instead of a torsion bar (and that Accurpress has it as an available accessory) but the fact that it's doubling the cost makes me wonder if we're missing something - perhaps that addition requires upgrading the encoders/scales, etc, and overall would be a bit more worthwhile. See if you can dig up more info on what that refers to.

When you're ordering punches and dies, be sure to account for the required radius for 5052 aluminum, as it doesn't follow the same rules as bending steel (meaning, with aluminum, bend radius is affected more by punch tip radius than die opening). You'll be needing at least 3 and 6 mm radius punches for those two thicknesses, bare minimum. Don't expect to use the .8mm punches that come with the machine on 5052 aluminum.

I don't think anyone in the US is going to be able to help with that particular controller, but that's an important thing to find some feedback on - it'll make or break an otherwise functional machine.

Put the segmented tooling in the machine and run your finger across the tip of the punches and the contact part of the dies. Your finger should detect a single punch or die surface. This is if you are air bending. Tenths matter in air bending. Aluminum has a mind of its own when air bending. No experience here with bottom bending.
Can you see the machine run? Take some parts to the machine maker and do some testing. Do not give advance notice that you are bringing parts.

Fish On said:

3200 kilos doesn't seem out of the ordinary for a machine that size.

2400 mm is a fair bit of length in regard to needing crowning, but 40 tons isn't - you don't often see crowning on such small tonnage machines. I don't have crowning on a 2600mm 60t machine, and don't miss it, but I'm also not doing full length sections of thin stainless either. I do, however, bend quite a lot of .125" 5052 aluminum in the 4' range, effectively the same as your 1200mm of 3mm thickness, so if that's the primary usage, I wouldn't make crowning a priority.

I'm assuming the electro-hydraulic sync means it's adding a second Y axis (Y1 and Y2, one for each ram)? It sounds like it, and given the term 'torsion synchronized,' I'm guessing you're looking at somewhat of an Accurpress clone, where they otherwise use a big pipe on the rocker arms to keep both sides in sync, rather than controlling it via hydraulics.

If that's correct, then yes, get the upgrade. There's a reason pretty much the rest of the world uses separate ram axes instead of a torsion bar (and that Accurpress has it as an available accessory) but the fact that it's doubling the cost makes me wonder if we're missing something - perhaps that addition requires upgrading the encoders/scales, etc, and overall would be a bit more worthwhile. See if you can dig up more info on what that refers to.

When you're ordering punches and dies, be sure to account for the required radius for 5052 aluminum, as it doesn't follow the same rules as bending steel (meaning, with aluminum, bend radius is affected more by punch tip radius than die opening). You'll be needing at least 3 and 6 mm radius punches for those two thicknesses, bare minimum. Don't expect to use the .8mm punches that come with the machine on 5052 aluminum.

I don't think anyone in the US is going to be able to help with that particular controller, but that's an important thing to find some feedback on - it'll make or break an otherwise functional machine.

Click to expand...

Thanks Bondo and FishOn for your detailed information and suggestions

Great info FishOn, then we skip the crowning for now.

Yes, electro-hydraulic sync is 2 individually controlled cylinders and normally mentioned at Y1 and Y2 axes. The much cheaper version of stroke synchronization is done with a torsion-beam see pics below. The torsion-beam sync seems to increase in popularity and peopl tent to spend money on a multi axis back gauge instead if cost is an issue, and for me it is. Im getting a torsion-beam machine with a TP10S controller and servo motors on Y+X+R and dual linear guides on front supports. 4x Finger stoppers on dual linear guides as well. Light guard, work lighting, Manual buttons for JOG of the axis, segmented punches (0.8mm) and dies, and all parts of EU/US brands except for the Chinese made cylinders but with Japanese NOK seals, all for 8900 usd FOB as i have had 3 sellers betting against each other. It cost 540 usd to get it to our door. but if i want a electro-hydraulic sync machine, it will cost me 22,500+ usd as it adds scales and proportional servo-hudraulic valves and a MUCH more expensive controller and more. So the question is if it is worth an extra 13,000 usd for that "luxury"? Me my self have no clue as this is my first press brake and i have seldomly used one.

As for punches and dies, i will get a set of segmented punches (R0.8mm) and dies with the machine, but im aware the need of larger radius punches for our R3 R6 and R10 bends.

Are you saying that the R0.8 is not even suitable for 1mm 5052 alu? Should i try to get R1 instead if possible? We will have harden 5052-36 or even -38 alu later. Please suggest a minimum punch radius.

As for the controller support, we are located in Vietnam and the situation is probably the same, that we can not expect any local support for it.

I hope you guys don't mind if i continue to post questions and updated regarding this machine here.

EDIT: How to post normal sized pictures here?

Scruffy887 said:

Put the segmented tooling in the machine and run your finger across the tip of the punches and the contact part of the dies. Your finger should detect a single punch or die surface. This is if you are air bending. Tenths matter in air bending. Aluminum has a mind of its own when air bending. No experience here with bottom bending.
Can you see the machine run? Take some parts to the machine maker and do some testing. Do not give advance notice that you are bringing parts.

Click to expand...

Thanks for you advice Scruffy. Im a newbie so i had to goodle "air bending" and "bottom bending" and also learned about "coining" :-) Great to learn new things.

You mean i should NOT be ably to feel any of the edges between the punches?

No, i cant even visit the factory due to Covid here in Vietnam. I can ask the seller to run some tests if I know what to ask for. Any ideas?