Salvagnini press brake CNC tooling adjustment

DanielG · Mar 12, 2018

Was looking at some press brake stuff and saw this system with CNC controlled upper and lower tooling. The lower tooling can either slide to make room for unbent sections:

Salvagnini press braking: B3.ATA upper & lower - YouTube

or another version can adjust the width automatically:

Salvagnini Press Brake with 1 second setup time - YouTube

This looks like it could save a lot of time on setups. Has anyone ever used it or seen it used?

adama · Mar 13, 2018

PRICE IT!! its a ungodly expensive option and all the more so if you need lots of diffrent die sizes. On thin material you normally only need to go to a wider die if your using a larger radius punch. Equally as you go thicker you don't just want a wider die, you want a larger radius on the edges of that wider die, or your going to mark the materialy your bending really badly. Hence i personally don't see that being all that usefull.

4 FN 27 · Mar 13, 2018

In the first video I hope the operator has a second machine to run while the Tooling gets moved. Man that has to slow the hits per hour way down. I would stage bend that part across the rail...speaking to a production run.

The second video again the hits per hour have go to be low. We have found buying consistent thickness material helps a ton holding angles. On the light stuff coining is the way to go. All the new "angle finders" built into the machines do nothing but slow them down.

We are getting 2 Amada ATC's on line this week. Hoping 1 will be up and running by the end of the day.

DanielG · Mar 13, 2018

Thanks for the replies. I find the whole sheet metal world fascinating. Unfortunately I don't get to do much sheet metal.

DanielG · Mar 13, 2018

4 FN 27 said:
The second video again the hits per hour have go to be low. We have found buying consistent thickness material helps a ton holding angles. On the light stuff coining is the way to go.

What do you consider light stuff?

I recently had some 12 gauge parts quoted and I'd designed the parts with .130" radii, as that's what the chart said for air bending. I was surprised when one of the shops came back and said they wanted to do a 'minimum radius' bend (.0625"). I had assumed that the higher-end equipment mostly did air bending now, but you learn something new every day.

adama · Mar 14, 2018

Most bending is air bending away from 90 degrees, but punch radius does not just fall from charts, it also is what tooling you have for that press, considering that 12' of top tool is no small out lay, then add that cost up as you go up the size range, its a ungodly large amount of money to even partially tool a press brake.

As to in process gaugeing, IMHO its a nice option to have and realy comes into its own on big awkward shit. On low prescion high qty work its not the tool for the job, but if its takeing 2 people to load the part then getting it right first hit is worth those few seconds. Out of the 3-4 brake presses i have ran that had it its the one feature i really mission the ones that did not have it. Equally the one i have used that had it was a simple tick box as to use it or not. You could also set it to gauge every x number of parts and that realy shone as a great option on higher qty stuff.

FYI 12G in steel or stainless is light to me, heavy is north of 12mm super heavy is 60mm+ and when your craneing parts in hot, in process gauging and right first hit really comes into its own!

4 FN 27 · Mar 14, 2018

DanielG said:
What do you consider light stuff?

I recently had some 12 gauge parts quoted and I'd designed the parts with .130" radii, as that's what the chart said for air bending. I was surprised when one of the shops came back and said they wanted to do a 'minimum radius' bend (.0625"). I had assumed that the higher-end equipment mostly did air bending now, but you learn something new every day.

Light Stuff: .120 and thinner.

We air bend and coin depending on the part or who is doing the set-up. The machine does not know the difference. Me, I prefer Air Bending.

Typically across the board we use 1/32 Radii unless the customer has a specific need. Even on 1/4 inch we use a 1/32.

adama said:
Most bending is air bending away from 90 degrees, but punch radius does not just fall from charts, it also is what tooling you have for that press, considering that 12' of top tool is no small out lay, then add that cost up as you go up the size range, its a ungodly large amount of money to even partially tool a press brake.

As to in process gaugeing, IMHO its a nice option to have and realy comes into its own on big awkward shit. On low prescion high qty work its not the tool for the job, but if its takeing 2 people to load the part then getting it right first hit is worth those few seconds. Out of the 3-4 brake presses i have ran that had it its the one feature i really mission the ones that did not have it. Equally the one i have used that had it was a simple tick box as to use it or not. You could also set it to gauge every x number of parts and that realy shone as a great option on higher qty stuff.

FYI 12G in steel or stainless is light to me, heavy is north of 12mm super heavy is 60mm+ and when your craneing parts in hot, in process gauging and right first hit really comes into its own!

In our 21 years in business we have accumulated approx. $3 million + of American, European, American Precision, Common Shut Height and beginning this week Wila Tooling for our Amada ATC Machines. Tooling is the key.

Here is a set-up (left to right) using an American Offset Tool that has been modified, an American Acute Punch with a European Die, Flattening Tool finishing off the rail with American Precision Acute Punches and American Precision V-Dies. It doesn't get much more mixed up than this. But it works on this part.

adama · Mar 15, 2018

4 FN 27 said:
Typically across the board we use 1/32 Radii unless the customer has a specific need. Even on 1/4 inch we use a 1/32.

Thats all well on good on soft steels, enclsure or panel work stuff like your picture, won't work on high tensile or on parts seeing high fatigue cycles in use. Pretty much every were i have been the sheet and plate parts were highly structural elements in agriculture and heavy plant. You just can't get away with tight 90 degree bends like that in structural parts once you get into higher strength steels with out starting the cracking that will soon see part failures in use.

4 FN 27 · Mar 15, 2018

adama said:
Thats all well on good on soft steels, enclsure or panel work stuff like your picture, won't work on high tensile or on parts seeing high fatigue cycles in use. Pretty much every were i have been the sheet and plate parts were highly structural elements in agriculture and heavy plant. You just can't get away with tight 90 degree bends like that in structural parts once you get into higher strength steels with out starting the cracking that will soon see part failures in use.

Yep...we service 2 completely different markets. We focus on 1/4 inch and less, CRS, HRS, SST, AL, CU...once in a great while we stray from the Wheelhouse into uncharted waters and find ourselves learning new ways to do things.

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