Tig welding SS for show, which Tig welder - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Hobart Brothers were bought by ITW, the parent company of Miller, in 1996.
    Pre 96 Hobarts are pretty much Hobart designed and made.
    Post 96, they are part of a family of welders made under different brand names, but designed by the same engineers.

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    My experience is that just about anything with a pedal will make a decent DC weld on stainless. (As a matter of fact, I made a bunch of fuel tanks out of 18 ga stainless for a guy a few years ago (at his site, with his Harbor Freight lift TIG welder,[without a pedal] none of which failed to meet specs)

    Pretty DC welds are a matter of practice and using appropriate heat. It is, in my opinion, much easier than welding carbon steel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toplineeng View Post
    I threw the picture into the original post (late), but here it is again. Attachment 275306



    I was using a Argon blend for my gas and a standard SS wire. I'll send updates as I schlopp them off the line. Thanks all!

    When you say Argon blend, do you mean Tri Mix? There is tri-mix shielding gas containing 90% Helium, 7.5% Argon, and 2.5%Carbon dioxide made for mig welding Stainless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    So- they are similar to Grizzly lathes- made in china, to Grizzly specs.
    By 'specs' do you mean the color of the paint ?

    I've got fifty cents says they are a standard runofthemill lathe that they just buy.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    By 'specs' do you mean the color of the paint ?

    I've got fifty cents says they are a standard runofthemill lathe that they just buy.
    Thats exactly my point, Einstein.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    Thats exactly my point, Einstein.
    Well, there are people who have a significant say in how their products are made in China - you've heard of Apple, I am sure ? I just don't think Grizzly is one of them.

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    Yes, and most of the importers of sub $1000 inverter tig machines dont either, whatever they say.
    I had a friend who imported inverter induction heating machines, for sale to blacksmiths, and he was able to spec the machines to his liking- but he knew exactly what he wanted, and specced higher quality components, heat sinks, connectors, etc. Then, he inspected every one as it arrived.

    So it is possible.
    Just rarely happens to anywhere near the degree that Miller inspects imported components that it builds into welders in Appleton Wisconsin.

    Lincoln does have a half dozen or more factories in China that are wholely owned by Lincoln, but mostly they build machines for the Chinese market. Most US domestic Lincolns are from Mexico and Ohio.

    Most of the higher priced Grizzly machines are actually made in Taiwan, not mainland China, and my guess is that there is input from Griz about what goes into them.

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    Why no love for the Lincoln Invertec line?

    Dual input voltage, pulse, hi-freq/lift/stick settings, 100% duty cycle to ~80% output, quick connect leads...

    I love mine but no one really talks about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Why no love for the Lincoln Invertec line?

    Dual input voltage, pulse, hi-freq/lift/stick settings, 100% duty cycle to ~80% output, quick connect leads...

    I love mine but no one really talks about them.
    This is the Internet. If something is good, reliable and well-built, you won't hear much about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    This is the Internet. If something is good, reliable and well-built, you won't hear much about it.
    An axiom for life. ^^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    Most of the higher priced Grizzly machines are actually made in Taiwan, not mainland China, and my guess is that there is input from Griz about what goes into them.
    That same fifty cents says that behind the loading dock, these "Taiwan" machines are built in Hubei or Anhui or some other cheap place. Any Taiwanian company worth its salt has been doing the real work in China for quite a while now. They all have "subsidiaries".

    The "Made in Taiwan" thing is more of a marketing slogan than a reality these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    That same fifty cents says that behind the loading dock, these "Taiwan" machines are built in Hubei or Anhui or some other cheap place. Any Taiwanian company worth its salt has been doing the real work in China for quite a while now. They all have "subsidiaries".

    The "Made in Taiwan" thing is more of a marketing slogan than a reality these days.
    Sounds like a guess on your part.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    Under a grand gets you chinese junk.
    Which works, until it doesnt.

    I find it amusing that there is big thread right now in General, dissing the people who bought a $2500 Grizzly lathe as despicable hobbyists, and yet, again and again, the same people are whining about how expensive welders are, and trying to get a recomendation on which Chinese inverter welder is actually secretly "good".

    Chinese inverter welders, just like 4x6 horizontal bandsaws, dont actually all come out of the same factory- but the range of quality is pretty slim, as they are all trying to meet a price point.

    My advice, having tig welded for money for almost 40 years now, is either buy a used older american made transformer machine like Trboatworks did(Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc) , or bite the bullet and buy a new Miller or Lincoln for $1500 to $3000, depending on amperage needs.
    Either will actually work, and can usually be repaired if it breaks, and will have resale value.
    I totally agree with this. I had an everlast powertig 185 (AC/DC, pulse, hf, pre-post control, ect) It welded stainless ok and was light and portable. I then bought a lightly used Lincoln 175 square wave pro (I have for sale now for 1200)and man what a difference. Smoother arc. crisper start, but didn't have all the options. Just picked up a Lincoln 255 with tig cooler, water cooled 20, full 330 size tank, and the little 175 welds just like it. I just need me amperage and more controls that the 175 gave.

    They are both transformer machines but are a dream to tig with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    Under a grand gets you chinese junk.
    Which works, until it doesnt.

    I find it amusing that there is big thread right now in General, dissing the people who bought a $2500 Grizzly lathe as despicable hobbyists, and yet, again and again, the same people are whining about how expensive welders are, and trying to get a recomendation on which Chinese inverter welder is actually secretly "good".

    Chinese inverter welders, just like 4x6 horizontal bandsaws, dont actually all come out of the same factory- but the range of quality is pretty slim, as they are all trying to meet a price point.

    My advice, having tig welded for money for almost 40 years now, is either buy a used older american made transformer machine like Trboatworks did(Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc) , or bite the bullet and buy a new Miller or Lincoln for $1500 to $3000, depending on amperage needs.
    Either will actually work, and can usually be repaired if it breaks, and will have resale value.

    I just sold my Fronius on Ebay, for $3850, which I think is a low price for what it is, but I didn't have the space to store it anymore. Having seller's remorse since I've never seen another Fronius that was as complete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    I am of the "buy one good one, and keep it for life" school.
    I have used most brands, and would probably suggest to buy a Dynasty if the money is there. (I have only had experience with Lincoln transformer machines, but maybe their inverter are just as good)

    Though when it comes to inverter machines I will argue that "buy one good one, and keep it for life" just doesn't exist anymore regardless of brand. (even the new transformer based machines are beginning to have high dollar circuit boards that hurt dependability and repair costs) I don't have much insight with the Lincoln products service, but my shop neighbor has been a Miller service center for decades. I don't consider being able to buy a replacement board for 30-50% the cost of the machine good "parts availability" or support.

    If you have 15-30hrs a week of welding then just buy a Dynasty or similar, but do so knowing that you might just buy a new one every 5 years because they are often not economical to repair outside the warranty if more than one board goes bad. I just think there are a lot of shops who do not weld enough to easily justify that to themselves.

    I will add that I think you should not buy an everlast or something else cheap if you do not have a basic understanding of circuit board electronics. The cheap machines are usually still generic surface mount components that can be removed and replaced afaik. (which to me is a positive in many ways) That is probably the reality of how you will need to keep one going if you are needing a repair.

    The components in a Miller/Lincoln are going to be higher quality and assembled better, but they will be damned if they are going to let anyone be able to service their own equipment to affordably keep it running out of warranty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johfoster View Post
    I have used most brands, and would probably suggest to buy a Dynasty if the money is there. (I have only had experience with Lincoln transformer machines, but maybe their inverter are just as good)

    Though when it comes to inverter machines I will argue that "buy one good one, and keep it for life" just doesn't exist anymore regardless of brand. (even the new transformer based machines are beginning to have high dollar circuit boards that hurt dependability and repair costs) I don't have much insight with the Lincoln products service, but my shop neighbor has been a Miller service center for decades. I don't consider being able to buy a replacement board for 30-50% the cost of the machine good "parts availability" or support.

    If you have 15-30hrs a week of welding then just buy a Dynasty or similar, but do so knowing that you might just buy a new one every 5 years because they are often not economical to repair outside the warranty if more than one board goes bad. I just think there are a lot of shops who do not weld enough to easily justify that to themselves.

    I will add that I think you should not buy an everlast or something else cheap if you do not have a basic understanding of circuit board electronics. The cheap machines are usually still generic surface mount components that can be removed and replaced afaik. (which to me is a positive in many ways) That is probably the reality of how you will need to keep one going if you are needing a repair.

    The components in a Miller/Lincoln are going to be higher quality and assembled better, but they will be damned if they are going to let anyone be able to service their own equipment to affordably keep it running out of warranty.
    The whole transformer/vs/Inverter thing really only applies to extreme antiques.
    I bought a new syncrowave transformer tig machine in about 1988.
    It has an high dollar circuit board in it, which puked in the mid 90s, and required replacement.

    Professional level transformer welders have had electronics in them which is susceptible to failure for at least 35 years now.

    Professional level inverter welders have been pretty tough for 20 years now- I have a 20 year old XMT that is bulletproof, and has earned its high dollar keep a dozen times over. Since a new XMT is around 8 grand setup for HF, foot pedal tig welding, I wouldnt hesitate to spend 2 grand on a new circuit board after 20 years of use.

  18. #37
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    "The whole transformer/vs/Inverter thing really only applies to extreme antiques..."
    I'll argue that the transformer vs inverter arguement only really applies to AC.

    From my experience, Any machine that can strike a DC arc and is even fairly stable will do just fine for stainless/steel/titanium/nickel's... ect ect ect. Post flow is the only 100% required function for high quality tig welds.
    Pulse mode is a fancy add on that makes some things easier but anything that can be welded by pulse can be welded without pulse.

    AC is where inverters will flog a transformer every time. Even 120hz AC is a World of difference from the 60hz of a transformer. I HATE welding aluminium/Mg without an inverter.

    Sad part is most inverters are throw away's now.


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