Trying to figure out a decent shear, press brake for aluminum sheet metal work.

akschu · Feb 18, 2021

I like building airplanes, so having a roller, shear, press brake would be super handy. I wanted something beefy and long, so I ordered a grizzly G0629 as it had some weight, I don't need German quality, and I figured it would be good enough.

I got the unit and the press brake is horribly machined. Some fingers (punch) are blunt, others are sharp, and they are different lengths to the tune of .020. The V-groove (die) is complete trash. It would probably take .010 to clean it up.

So, I call grizzly, they are easy enough to work with, but they don't have the parts in stock and want to mail me another unit, which I'm not expecting will be one lick better.

I found that Lindmark Machine in Seattle can machine the punch and die and make them nice for around $800, which if Grizzly comps me a few hundred, that brings the tool into the $2200 range, but I expect the press to be very decent at that price point.

Does that seam reasonable? I can just return it, but then what? It would be super nice to have the smaller footprint of the combo machine, and while I totally understand that separate $5k tools are better, I don't have that budget or space, and I'm only working with aluminum. Just trying to figure the best path forward....

Thanks

Scruffy887 · Feb 18, 2021

You said Gristle? Gristley? Not really worth it. Maybe can shear, maybe can bend metal. As accurate as a hammer? Those machines are hobby level on a good day. As far as bending aluminum? It will take its own path more often than not. Your ability to apply VooDoo will help. Got any rum, chickens, good cigars, sharp knife? Full moon coming up?

Ries · Feb 18, 2021

Tennsmith is a lot better quality, mostly made in the USA, and has a much more solid resale value too. What you really want is an EBT brake from them, but those are more like 9 grand. But all the Tennsmith stuff is better than the Grizzly stuff.

gbent · Feb 18, 2021

After you put more money into the Grizzly it will be non-returnable. After you go to use it you will probably find other problems that are only evident with usage. Then what are you going to do? You have a job that requires a Cadillac and you bought a Bolt. No matter how much money you put into the Bolt, it will never be a Cadillac.

Ries mentions resale value. If you try to sell that new Grizzly, I'd guess it would take a few months to get 1/3 of your money back. If you shop around for good name used sheet metal equipment and buy it right, when you go to sell it you will get nearly all your money back. Your cost of ownership will be the cost of money.

EPAIII · Feb 19, 2021

That one looks like the same general design as their 30", 3-in-1 sheet metal machine, which I have used. The 30" one was OK for light gauge work and the fingers were all pretty much the same size and shape (0.010"?). I am a bit surprised that this one is so bad but then it is from China.

I would start looking around for something made in the US. And save my pennies to afford it.

DDoug · Feb 19, 2021

If your doing press brake work, look at the bantam units.

I have used one of those 3-in-1 units at a "makerspace",
and tried to make it better with stops, squaring arms front & back, etc.

In your case doing aluminum, you'll want to be able to have different
punches for different radii, rubber pad forming, etc.

Don't waste your time.

or play with one of these:

http://www.weindex.info/pdf/Brake/4.pdf

Erich · Feb 19, 2021

The horror story on those that I have heard is the link on either side breaks in two under load.
Any design that puts cast iron pieces in tension needs to be place on the ash heap. And the designer staked out on an anthill as well.

johnoder · Feb 19, 2021

Guess you know or will find out

The difference between say 2024-0 and 2024 T6 is way more than night and day as to ease (or even success) in bending

powerglider · Feb 19, 2021

Anything that is sold as a 3 in 1 machine will at best be mediocre in 1 of the 3 things is wants to do and ugly in the other 2.

akschu · Feb 19, 2021

Thanks for the helpful responses.

I took another look at it last night and suddenly it clicked why there was a piece of Chinese newspaper behind two of the fingers. It's because the fingers were too thin so the hold down bar wouldn't hold them in place. So, we have poorly machined die, poorly machined finger ends, poorly machined thickness, poorly machined squareness, so yea, I called them up and they are coming to get it.

Yes, I know all about 2024-0 (which I don't use) and 2024-T3, but I never use more than .032, so it's not that terrible. I was hoping for a poor man's press brake because some of the things I want to bend don't fit in a finger brake, and I wanted something better than hammering over a former, and having a roller is nice, and having a shear is really nice. I hoped this would be good enough, and for the roller and shear it would have been, but the brake is less useful than a hammer.

I didn't realize the design issues with the cast iron links. That's good to know.

As for Dave's cheap brake, that's not a press brake. It won't bend what I need to bend, and I already have a 24" shopfox finger brake which actually does a pretty decent job as the fingers fit tight and consistent.

So, back to the drawing board. Anyone know how to bend a something like this where the red is the bend lines?

Thanks,
schu

DDoug · Feb 19, 2021

akschu said:
Thanks for the helpful responses.

I took another look at it last night and suddenly it clicked why there was a piece of Chinese newspaper behind two of the fingers. It's because the fingers were too thin so the hold down bar wouldn't hold them in place. So, we have poorly machined die, poorly machined finger ends, poorly machined thickness, poorly machined squareness, so yea, I called them up and they are coming to get it.

Yes, I know all about 2024-0 (which I don't use) and 2024-T3, but I never use more than .032, so it's not that terrible. I was hoping for a poor man's press brake because some of the things I want to bend don't fit in a finger brake, and I wanted something better than hammering over a former, and having a roller is nice, and having a shear is really nice. I hoped this would be good enough, and for the roller and shear it would have been, but the brake is less useful than a hammer.

I didn't realize the design issues with the cast iron links. That's good to know.

As for Dave's cheap brake, that's not a press brake. It won't bend what I need to bend, and I already have a 24" shopfox finger brake which actually does a pretty decent job as the fingers fit tight and consistent.

So, back to the drawing board. Anyone know how to bend a something like this where the red is the bend lines?

View attachment 314254

Thanks,
schu

So if you want a press brake, build one.

many pictures and videos online.

Do not cheapen out on the weight.

Qty (2) HF 20 ton air over bottle jacks, some 12" I-beam upper and lower, some 1 1/2"
all thread for bottom stops.

Weld 1" sq. all along the upper and lower to make your standard die 1/2" groove.
Predrill and tap 5/16" holes every 6" along each piece (4 of them).
Use the punch with a piece of shim paper to weld them in place.

akschu · Feb 19, 2021

Most of the stuff I found online is just using angle iron and a HF press, which is great for think heavy steel, but not really what I'm looking for.

I did find this page though:

https://www.americanmachinetools.com/dies.htm

I can buy Number 1A punch and a Number 2 1/2 die in 4' for around $810, then build a machine around it. I suspect I could get a pretty decent press together for around $1500 and a few weekends of my time.

Another thing I saw that is amazing is this:

Fribesco Presents Schechtl's TBS - YouTube

Having the ability to remove the bottom in segments would make this work really well for what I want to do. I'm sure it's very expensive. Anyone see anything like that in the states?

Fish On · Feb 19, 2021

I did find this page though:

https://www.americanmachinetools.com/dies.htm

I can buy Number 1A punch and a Number 2 1/2 die in 4' for around $810, then build a machine around it. I suspect I could get a pretty decent press together for around $1500 and a few weekends of my time.

You can get American style dies cheaper than that. Check with Power Brake Dies, and Riteway Brake Dies (their ebay store usually beats their over the phone price - I tried to call in an order one time to save them the ebay fees and the phone price was higher. When I mentioned that, he said to order it from his ebay store... :nutter:

).

Power is showing both the punch and die you specified in their in stock standards.
In Stock Press Brake Tooling — Power Brake Dies

akschu said:
Another thing I saw that is amazing is this:

Fribesco Presents Schechtl's TBS - YouTube

Having the ability to remove the bottom in segments would make this work really well for what I want to do. I'm sure it's very expensive. Anyone see anything like that in the states?

Mittler Brothers makes one with removable bits on the apron, leaf and bed. Never seen one in person, so I can't comment on quality.

2800-48-16-R, Mittler Bros Ultimate Box and Pan Brake, Radius Fingers

kb0thn · Feb 19, 2021

For 0.032" aluminum you could make a pretty simple press brake. Especially if you don't need long bends.

Here is one I made for a specific job in 0.060" aluminum:
Arbor press light duty press brake - YouTube
Some shafting and bushings in milled plastic carrier. Two real hydraulic press brakes later, I still just this little contraption for certain parts.

DDoug · Feb 19, 2021

Pix of what your trying to make might prove frootfull... :popcorn:

akschu · Feb 20, 2021

digger doug said:
Pix of what your trying to make might prove frootfull...

Already did. Post 10 has one simple example, but there are always weird bends like that in my shop.

akschu · Feb 20, 2021

Fish On said:
You can get American style dies cheaper than that. Check with Power Brake Dies, and Riteway Brake Dies (their ebay store usually beats their over the phone price - I tried to call in an order one time to save them the ebay fees and the phone price was higher. When I mentioned that, he said to order it from his ebay store...).

Power is showing both the punch and die you specified in their in stock standards.
In Stock Press Brake Tooling — Power Brake Dies

Mittler Brothers makes one with removable bits on the apron, leaf and bed. Never seen one in person, so I can't comment on quality.

2800-48-16-R, Mittler Bros Ultimate Box and Pan Brake, Radius Fingers

This is super helpful, I also saw this one:

Sheet Metal Bending Brake | 16 Gauge Box and Pan Brake | Baileigh Industrial

And another version of it:

Box and Pan Bending Brakes WFBP5014-R – Woodward Fab

Which apparently I could buy here for $3300 and free shipping. (might even get the 10% off to work)
Woodward Fab Euro Style 50" Box and Pan Brake WFBP5014-R - Annex Tools

Thoughts on any of those units?

bryan_machine · Feb 20, 2021

akschu - you don't say where you are in WA (I'm assuming WA state rather than DC) - but there is a vendor of used sheetmetal equipment in Kent.
Contact - Benoit Sheet Metal Equipment, Inc.

You could call them up and ask what used stuff they have in stock - the business has new owners (previous one died) but the general pattern of used stuff goes in and out of there continues.

Realize also that Grizzly is an importer, and their products vary lots from one catalog entry to the next. So a model G1010 might be a cheezy kit a model G1013 might be much better.

Anyway, one of the Grizzly items is similar to the mittler brother's unit, and both are sort of copies of a multikant - you can remove not only fingers, but also bending blocks and base blocks. They dont' call this out, I found it (and bought one) by accident. I've not used it much, but it *seems* much less sketchy than the bendtop brakes or 3-in-1 machines. It's number G0481.

As for your part, I don't see why it can't be done on a finger brake, if and only if, the base is deep enough and the flanges shallow enough, to clear the back of the fingers.

You really want a press brake? Look for a di-acro 16-24. Small, lever powered, hard to find. I have one, as does a lab I'm associated with. Be warned that if you buy one off ebay (I did) it may show up with the machine in good shape and the most random conceivable collection of tooling - see the post above about where to get tooling.
Di-Acro 16-24 press brake

DanielG · Feb 20, 2021

Check out the Atek Bantam press brakes as well. They are pneumatic. They're still in production, can be fitted with back gauges, etc. You can often find them used and factory support on used machines is good.

DDoug · Feb 20, 2021

akschu said:
Already did. Post 10 has one simple example, but there are always weird bends like that in my shop.

That don't show much.

No dimensions, no end view.

and it's the "weird bends" that we need to see to help you.

Unless you don't want help.....

Trying to figure out a decent shear, press brake for aluminum sheet metal work.

Plastic

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Stainless

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Diamond

Plastic

Plastic

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

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