Used CNC press brake advice: brands, controls, etc? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Congrats and good luck. A brake like that is in my future.

    I'm happy with dies custom made by Riteway Brake Dies, reasonable price all things considered, they can make whatever you want for less than most of the equivalent one-off crap listed on ebay.

    One thing about American style brake tooling, i.e. made in long sections on a planer in one-off setups, standard or custom, it's not likely to be repeatable close enough to ever mix tooling made in separate setups. So if your work mix demands sectioned tooling, when you buy it, buy enough of each style to be able to cut, mix and match -- you won't be able to get more at a future date and mix it. At least that is my experience.

    it's different with the precision machined Euro styles, made in short sections to high tolerance and interchangeable, and way more expensive.

    I started out with some standard height punches and a tall riser, and found the limited box depth was unworkable, and moved to buying or making all box style punches, 5" to 5-1/2" projection vs. the typical 3-3/4" for the standard shapes.

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  3. #22
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    I would look around a bit more for tooling, out of all the materials to bend, its alu were die nose radius matters most and i know we never had any issues getting different radius over here in the uk, kinda would be amazed if you had less selection over there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    I would look around a bit more for tooling, out of all the materials to bend, its alu were die nose radius matters most and i know we never had any issues getting different radius over here in the uk, kinda would be amazed if you had less selection over there.
    For American style tooling my sense is the best prices are from places that make it to order and so it can be whatever you want.

  5. #24
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    Not sure why they mounted the control to the ram. The pedal is still on a long cable. If they find the original pedestal before the truck picks the machine up, they'll send it, otherwise I can whip one together.

    Riteway is where my tooling quote came from. Custom cut with my specified angle and radius. I probably should request a requote for taller box style punches, assuming they can still make them in a gooseneck.

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    Apparently, signing a purchase order, wiring the money and arranging/paying for trucking doesn't mean you actually own the machine.

    On Tuesday, when the truck was scheduled to pick it up, the sellers told him to hold off, as they've got a problem. Evidently, the company that owned it has split ownership between 85 year old father, and his son. The father isn't involved in the day to day, but apparently still holds majority stake. He happened to show up when they were moving it, and raised holy hell. This was a trade in on a new machine, and the father canceled the sale on the new machine, and insists this one isn't leaving. I'm not sure of the details behind it, but the salesman that I bought it from is livid, to put it mildly.

    So now, money has been wired back to me, and the machine dealer covered all fees I had paid, so I guess I'm back in the market. Sucks, as pricewise, this was a really good deal, but such is life I suppose.

    I potentially could still buy the LVD, though I think it's been moved now, so it'll cost more than the original discounted rate I was getting by buying it before the dealer moves it, and I kinda talked myself out of being interested in it when I found the Accurpress.

  7. #26
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    Check out Iroquois Ironworker press brakes. iroquoisiron.com They specialize in basic machines for smaller shops. You can get them with all manual controls or CNC options.
    They also are willing to customize a machine and even design tooling for specific operations. I'm trying to get by with a an old Driess and Krump 14' mechanical! I'd love to upgrade to one of their's if nothing else I live nearby, but so far they haven't built one that wide....
    Good Luck!

  8. #27
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    Adama and others, school me on European tooling.

    Considering this machine right now.
    USED 8'4" X 12 GA. DURMA HYDRAULIC PRESS BRAKE | Kempler Industries

    I see that it has some sort of quick change sectional punch clamps, but it doesn't have a full bed worth of them. Are those generic, and built to the same standard (so I could pick up a few more to fill it in), or are they like planer tooling, where I would have to buy them all at the same time?

    Assuming a full ram of tool clamps was available, do the small spaces in between cause issues? I do lots of varying pan sizes, so I may have a 52" pan, then a 27" then a 14" then a 34" one after the other. I imagine bigger tools won't have a problem bridging, but there will invariably need to be some little tools as well (my current hand box/pan brake has tools down to 2.5"). Any issue rearranging so that the little tools end up in the middle of the clamp, or is it pretty simple?

    I've seen Adama mention using American bottom dies in European machines. What is required for that?

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish On View Post
    Apparently, signing a purchase order, wiring the money and arranging/paying for trucking doesn't mean you actually own the machine.

    On Tuesday, when the truck was scheduled to pick it up, the sellers told him to hold off, as they've got a problem. Evidently, the company that owned it has split ownership between 85 year old father, and his son. The father isn't involved in the day to day, but apparently still holds majority stake. He happened to show up when they were moving it, and raised holy hell. This was a trade in on a new machine, and the father canceled the sale on the new machine, and insists this one isn't leaving. I'm not sure of the details behind it, but the salesman that I bought it from is livid, to put it mildly.

    So now, money has been wired back to me, and the machine dealer covered all fees I had paid, so I guess I'm back in the market. Sucks, as pricewise, this was a really good deal, but such is life I suppose.

    I potentially could still buy the LVD, though I think it's been moved now, so it'll cost more than the original discounted rate I was getting by buying it before the dealer moves it, and I kinda talked myself out of being interested in it when I found the Accurpress.
    ....or....The dealer got a better price from someone else, and made the whole story up....

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    ....or....The dealer got a better price from someone else, and made the whole story up....
    Haven't discounted that, but with no way to prove one way or the other, I'll take it at face value. Trucking company claims the seller is who called him to cancel, not the dealer, so there is that. It's water under the bridge, either way, and I'm still sans machine, either way, so I'm not going to waste time pondering it.

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    On the amadas i have ran we simply had diffrent die holders and you just undone the bed clamps and swapped them, a raiser and a keyed rail for the euro bottom tools and a simple groved block for the other style of V's we had. no were i have used a press break were we doing simple pans, it was all pretty complex multiple hit stuff, 10+ bends a part was common, lots of tooling changers were also. short tooling both bed V's and top tools and bending tags up - down out of the sheets were normal too.

    Can't get your link to open, but top euro die holders at least on the amadas i ran were a std item, they have a integral wedge arangment so you could adjust them if need be a little. They in turn got clamped to the top beam, so you could really move them around a fair bit. Which made deeper box like bends easy. Only crap bit, at least on the amadas they could not be stacked, ie you could not put one clamp in anouther to gain depth that always seamed real dumb! Oh and full sets not solid holders alll the way across the beam, a few inches of gap between each is the norm, if they have been pushed together you would seam short as it were. Its a nice system with lots of flexability but you may well not need that if your only doing simple shallow trays. See bellow for the kinda gaps i mean


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    Since the link won't work, here are the pics. Bigger gaps than the amada.

    Hope they show up large enough. Still waiting on better pics from seller.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27674d.jpg   27674b.jpg   27674c.jpg   27674.jpg  

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    Thoes spread out may well do just fine for your alu i would expect only 1 more at the most 2. Thoes first 5 are way tighter together than you need them to be if thats only a sub 80 ton machine. Which im assuming it is based on 8' of 12 gauge? Over here every one rates by tonnage and thats so much easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Thoes spread out may well do just fine for your alu i would expect only 1 more at the most 2. Thoes first 5 are way tighter together than you need them to be if thats only a sub 80 ton machine. Which im assuming it is based on 8' of 12 gauge? Over here every one rates by tonnage and thats so much easier.
    It's a 66 ton.

    I've just been advised to avoid Cybelec controls, and that it's also a positive stop machine, so avoid based on that as well. I guess that one's out.

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    That place wouldn't happen to be in Philadelphia? That looks like Prestige Equipment warehouse.

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
    That place wouldn't happen to be in Philadelphia? That looks like Prestige Equipment warehouse.

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
    The Durma? It's being sold by Kempler, in Illinois, so I'd assume they have it on site, but you never really know with some dealers.

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    If you get one that has an old control you could always upgrade the controller. I looked at building a 4ft press brake and putting an iCon 100 controller on it. About a year ago it was $1500 for the controller. Seems pretty fancy

    iControl - The iCON controller for sheet metal machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ME Newb View Post
    If you get one that has an old control you could always upgrade the controller. I looked at building a 4ft press brake and putting an iCon 100 controller on it. About a year ago it was $1500 for the controller. Seems pretty fancy

    iControl - The iCON controller for sheet metal machines.

    That's a good thought. I had discounted that earlier, as one of the control brands that I checked was significantly costlier, but that's pretty cheap.

    Big surprise, the dealer that originally sold me the Accurpress went ahead and quoted me a new 7' 66 ton Turkish machine. $35k. I see the logic, 20 year old used ones are $24,500 and up, so an additional 10k gets a new machine with a warranty. I haven't thrown that option off the table - I could swing it if I had to, but was really hoping to trim the budget slightly. Will chew on it over the weekend.

    Otherwise, discounting the 'avoid' machines, the pickings are pretty slim even in the 24,500 range (3/4 of what's listed is already sold - wish dealers would update their stock lists). Still waiting on a call back from a couple new brake dealers, to see if they have any customers that will need to offload the machine they are upgrading.

  22. #39
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    Ended up purchasing a brand new MVD I-bend a60-2600.

    8'6", 65 ton. Single axis backgauge (powered X with manual R). ESA S630 graphical controller with 2d modeling. Promecam/Amada type European tooling holders (with adjustable spacer - can be flipped for use with American tools). I got him to include the proper tooling for the types of parts I make right now, so I'll be using Euro tooling for the foreseeable future.

    Looking at mid December delivery.

    https://www.mvd.com.tr/mvd/upload/ca...nd-Catalog.pdf

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    How much roughly? Looks a bit - Lots more than your original used budget?


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