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  1. #1
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    Default Welder Value Question

    I've an old, OLD Tig/Stick machine, a Hobart TigWeld AC/DC. It's a 250 Amp, copper wound transformer machine. It runs well, and is a solid machine. It has never failed to let me weld anything I've thrown at it, from Aluminum to Steel to Stainless. And I'm going to sell it. I simply do not do the type of work that I used to use it for. In fact, I rarely weld at all any more. I want to have something mildly capable around, but not this large. Has a Bernard stainless cooler, bottle, gauge, and WP18 torch.

    I'd like it to move as I can use the space, but I don't need to give it away, either. I'd like it to be a fair deal for both parties. Any guidance on what I should price it at?

    Same machine as this ebay picture, but different cooler.



    Thanks.

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    I would ask $5-600 it out here. Can you include some tungstens and different size collets & cups to sweeten the pot? Will it do stick and if so do you have a stick lead? Misc filler rods and sticks? Basicly make a package so someone has everything needed to weld as soon as they get it home.
    $1000 for a complete package would be the high end on a good day, really good day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I would ask $5-600 it out here. Can you include some tungstens and different size collets & cups to sweeten the pot? Will it do stick and if so do you have a stick lead? Misc filler rods and sticks? Basicly make a package so someone has everything needed to weld as soon as they get it home.
    $1000 for a complete package would be the high end on a good day, really good day.
    First, I would not sell the cooler. Even the newer IGBT non-transformer machines still need coolers. Coolers cost well over $300 and you never see them used. I'm sure that your welder is a good machine, but the new non-transformer machines are lighter, smaller and very smooth to use. Yes, the older machines work well, but no where as well as the new machines. I would be surprised if you got more than scrap value for the welder because the new machines are better and much less expensive than they used to be. As an additional tip, if you must sell the cooler, you should advertise it among the PCP airgun crowd. Those guys buy these cheap Chinese 4500 PSI compressors that are water cooled and very poorly at that. I think you would get more money for the cooler than the welder.

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    I have a similar machine (Heliarc 250) that I will be selling. From what I have seen the base machine with torch, working, you can try it out $400 max. I have a Miller coolmate 4 cooler that should bring about $300. Advanced Welding Supply on 91st and Schlinger sells the Eastwood 200 amp AC./DC with a 3 year locally honored warranty new for $700.

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    The old transformer constant current units basically reduced the output current at the lower amperage settings by wasting a good part of the unneeded excess amperage as heat.

    If you are in an area of the country (or world) where the utility imposes a demand charge, like here in Brooklyn, those transformer units are worth scrap minus the cost of getting it to the yard, so you would have to pay me 500 to even look at it.

    Just the harsh reality of it, they run great, the nicest stick unit I’ve ever run was a Linde beast that would cost me 3000$ to run for an hour, and that’s not hyperbole, it would bump me into another rate class and I’d be stuck paying crazy money for the next year even if I didn’t use a single kilowatt. I’ve been there, I payed 99 cents a kilowatt hour once. Yup, a buck. Not a dam thing I could do other than have my service shut off

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I would ask $5-600 it out here. Can you include some tungstens and different size collets & cups to sweeten the pot? Will it do stick and if so do you have a stick lead? Misc filler rods and sticks? Basicly make a package so someone has everything needed to weld as soon as they get it home.
    $1000 for a complete package would be the high end on a good day, really good day.
    Yes, I would definitely include the whole tackle box of cups, several boxes of Tungsten in various types and sizes, some back caps, etc... Have a number of tubes of filler rod. Has the stinger, too. Definitely a package deal to help someone.


    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    I have a similar machine (Heliarc 250) that I will be selling. From what I have seen the base machine with torch, working, you can try it out $400 max. I have a Miller coolmate 4 cooler that should bring about $300. Advanced Welding Supply on 91st and Schlinger sells the Eastwood 200 amp AC./DC with a 3 year locally honored warranty new for $700.
    Interesting. Thank you. Also relevant because I will want to replace it with something like that, too. My thinking is that for the rare times that I need to weld something, it is typically something around 3/16" - 1/4" steel or Aluminum for a cart or fixture. I know nothing of current brands and their quality levels. But first, to sell this one...


    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    The old transformer constant current units basically reduced the output current at the lower amperage settings by wasting a good part of the unneeded excess amperage as heat.

    If you are in an area of the country (or world) where the utility imposes a demand charge, like here in Brooklyn, those transformer units are worth scrap minus the cost of getting it to the yard, so you would have to pay me 500 to even look at it.

    Just the harsh reality of it, they run great, the nicest stick unit I’ve ever run was a Linde beast that would cost me 3000$ to run for an hour, and that’s not hyperbole, it would bump me into another rate class and I’d be stuck paying crazy money for the next year even if I didn’t use a single kilowatt. I’ve been there, I payed 99 cents a kilowatt hour once. Yup, a buck. Not a dam thing I could do other than have my service shut off
    I appreciate it, but that's likely a regional thing. I've lived in various areas of the country and that has never been an issue for me or anyone else I know. I used to repair molds and motor cases of Aluminum 3/4" - 3" thick ( in sections ) as well as typical steel and stainless jobs and this thing was ( is ) smooth as silk. It NEVER left me wanting. And frankly, I never cared what the electrical rates were. We charged appropriately for what our overhead was. It was really nice being able to smoke through thicker Aluminum jobs without stopping constantly to let the machine catch up and cool down. Just pour the coals to it and get it done.

    I do appreciate the input, though, and will check to see how its done here to see if affects local pricing at all.


    Thank you, all.

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    Also, ask your electric company if they have an incentive program, some utilities will actually rebate 100% of the purchase cost of an inverter unit if it’s replacing an old transformer C/C unit.

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    The old Hobart should be worth at least five-six hundred bucks , have you purchased a Weld Craft water cooled torch lately?
    These old Hobart Tig-welds were designed to pretty much last forever. As for power consuming there not all that bad.
    Basically the only current draw when not welding is the cooling fan and then input amperage only increase proportionately
    To out put current (welding)
    The Hobart power source in question has what is called a saturation reactor and weld current is controlled by a small rheostat and a hi-low range switch. this rheostat increases or decreases the impendence of the reactor, the less impendence in the reactor the more weld output. The main transformer will only allow as much output amperage as the saturable reactor allows.
    And yes inverters are smaller use less input power and in some cases depending on the process even weld better. That said we have over 42 inverters out here both Miller and Lincoln and I can tell you first hand they will absolutely NEVER have the operational life span of a good old transformer based welder.

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    I would try to find the space keep it if you can. Under a table or bench or even on a stand or pallet rack to get it off the ground if need be. With the little welding it sounds like you need to do, this machine will just fire right up and run every time you turn it on, probably still do so in 30 more yrs. I have several inverter machines as well as some transformer machines. They all weld fine, NEVER had any issues with the xfmr machines, one inverter needed a new capacitor bank so far. By the time you get all the rod. water cooler, torch coiled up on a spool, gas bottle, etc the difference in space between this and a newer inverter is not all that much.

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    I would also keep the radiator if you are going to have a tig machine- that cooler is a cool $800 new. If its a size and weight issue, yes, you can get a quite capable small inverter- but it will cost you, either in quality, like the Eastwood mentioned, or in dollars- a small inverter capable of aluminum by a reputable manufacturer is easily 2 to 3 grand.
    Personally, I would just keep what you got- new machines are significantly more expensive, and to get anything but a questionable chinese machine will cost you well over 2 grand. Whereas, $500 is probably a reasonable sales price for that machine.
    If you dont need to weld aluminum, and just want something small, the little miller inverters like the current Maxstar 161 are very slick, tiny, will run on 110 or 220, and cute to boot.

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    I have a miller of similar enough capabilities to seem comparable enough, at least to me. With a 125 bucks into it for the foot pedal I bought, I have right around $600 CDN in mine, no cables, no cooler.

    I suspect, even at that, I could not get my money back. But it's great welder for sitting against the wall in a farm shop for occasional use stick welding, when I don't want to listen to the engine driven unit run. Too heavy to pick up and load into a truck without some rigging.

    Got mine on a 50 amp 220v single phase circuit. Works well enough.

    If you can rustle up a cable and stick holder for it, it might be an easier sell. Keep the cooler!

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    the power source maybe a couple hundred the rest of the stuff I dont know. I have bought power sources at auction for the leads and scrapped the welders.
    of course my shop welder is a big old transformer like yours though and I use it a few times a week. just got a cute little Lincoln stt welder and haven't even tried using yet. the old 400 amper just works

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    I looked at Craigslist for your location and it gave me a reasonable value for your machine. Have you tried doing this..Craigslist is a pretty good gauge of what things are going for on the used market in your area.

    Stuart

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    Lots of good info in here. Yeah, the problem with selling welders like that is that if you go on craigslist and look for a welder there will be 50 welders just like that. Now that I can have a 50 pound, power efficient inverter welder with built in pulse and gas valve and QD lines, those big old machines just don't sell.

    The cooler is worth more than the welder. The inverter welders tend to not come with a cooler, so everybody is buying coolers on craigslist. That cooler is probably worth $400, the welder $150-300. Even with all the TIG stuff you've got for it, that's kinda seen as inconsequential and the welder itself is what sells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    I would also keep the radiator if you are going to have a tig machine- that cooler is a cool $800 new. If its a size and weight issue, yes, you can get a quite capable small inverter- but it will cost you, either in quality, like the Eastwood mentioned, or in dollars- a small inverter capable of aluminum by a reputable manufacturer is easily 2 to 3 grand.
    Personally, I would just keep what you got- new machines are significantly more expensive, and to get anything but a questionable chinese machine will cost you well over 2 grand. Whereas, $500 is probably a reasonable sales price for that machine.
    If you dont need to weld aluminum, and just want something small, the little miller inverters like the current Maxstar 161 are very slick, tiny, will run on 110 or 220, and cute to boot.
    200-Amp Digital AC/DC TIG & ARC Welder – Eastwood Do you have any experience with this Eastwood welder? I do a lot of silicon bronze tig brazing at less than 75 amps and currently using a Lincoln Precision Tig 275 with the advanced control panel. I wonder how much I would save on electricity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    200-Amp Digital AC/DC TIG & ARC Welder – Eastwood Do you have any experience with this Eastwood welder? I do a lot of silicon bronze tig brazing at less than 75 amps and currently using a Lincoln Precision Tig 275 with the advanced control panel. I wonder how much I would save on electricity.
    my question would be- what is a "lot". I currently run 3 Miller tig machines. Total years in my shop, for the three, is about 55 years of service. (1988, 2000, and 2014 purchase dates) In that time, often with 40 hour weeks, I have had ONE major repair- and it was a circuit board on the 1988 Transformer syncrowave 250.

    I maintain that an Eastwood, or similar retailer badged generic chinese tig machine is probably not going to come close to matching that.
    But many people who dont use them too often, and who are very price sensitive, swear by Everlast and the like.

    I think if you realize the major parts in one of those are simply not available, and that repair times may run into the weeks, and you are okay with that, then it might be OK. I just like sturdy, overbuilt, american tools, I am old, what can I say.

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    I've sold welders just like that to buy a brand new one only to repair and sell the new one a few years later and buy another old one.

    If you just use it occasionally and it works then that is the absolute perfect welder for you. Put some fork pockets under it and stuff it up high somewhere with a plastic bag or stretch wrap over it.

    Otherwise, that thing is $600 with the cooler. $200 without IMO.

    I've bought same thing minus cooler for $100-$200 several times.

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    With the advent of inverter welders, many people are turning their noses up at the old, transformer machines. They dump the old ones only to discover that they miss the old one for its reliability and even the nice arc that some of them give.

    If I had an older machine like that, I'd find a space to park it for occasional use. I've still got my older Lincoln AC-DC Tombstone. When I need it, it's there waiting.

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    I have to admit that I have cooled a bit on the sale, now... One of the reasons that I like the machine so much is that arc quality. It's also got all kinds of arse in the chute, too. It's slightly more finicky on much thinner materials ( 0.030" - 0.060" ), but I've always managed to get by with it on them. Now, reading the feedback, I'm becoming more reticent to let it go... sigh...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    my question would be- what is a "lot". I currently run 3 Miller tig machines. Total years in my shop, for the three, is about 55 years of service. (1988, 2000, and 2014 purchase dates) In that time, often with 40 hour weeks, I have had ONE major repair- and it was a circuit board on the 1988 Transformer syncrowave 250.

    I maintain that an Eastwood, or similar retailer badged generic chinese tig machine is probably not going to come close to matching that.
    But many people who dont use them too often, and who are very price sensitive, swear by Everlast and the like.

    I think if you realize the major parts in one of those are simply not available, and that repair times may run into the weeks, and you are okay with that, then it might be OK. I just like sturdy, overbuilt, american tools, I am old, what can I say.
    I would add that the new sub $1000 inverter welders need to be treated as throw aways once the warranty is up. Repair will not be justifiable.

    I have a Miller Invision456P Mig rig, a Hobart TR300HF Tig machine, a Hobart Cyberwave 300 with the 800 controller. I also just purchased a new Primeweld TIG225X for doing remote Tig repair jobs.

    I really like the Miller 456 but if it has problems, it will be costly to repair. The Chinese Tig machine has a lot of features but it will be a throw away after warranty.

    The power savings of the inverter welders vs the reactance transformer welders is overstated. I suspect that the underlying issue is likely power factor which is easily addressed if you understand the problem.

    The Hobart machine that Zahn has probably has a duty cycle of 80% or better at max output and can probably easily handle 100% for reasonable time periods. Zahns rig is also a single phase rig.

    The Chinese inverter rigs are also usually single phase but many of these models have duty cycles at 20% on the higher power settings.

    If you really want to sell it and can't get a reasonable price, just remember that the big aluminum Hobart foot pedal goes for $100-$125 on Ebay. The cooler is easily worth $250-$300.

    The old Hobarts are antiques but well respected by those that have used them.


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