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  1. #21
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    We hadn't had issues with our local non-franchise welding shop until I brought in these last cylinders. We've rented in the past but it's not economical and you have to stay on top of which tanks are your tanks. Our current welding shop had on our account that we were renting a forklift propane bottle. We couldn't remember getting it, but we did have one that wasn't marked (we paint our name on them), so we gave it back when it was empty and bought a couple good used ones that now have our name on them. It's good having spares but not when they're costing you rent just sitting around. They tend to run out right when you're lifting a skid onto a truck.

    We used to deal with Praxair at our old shop, so we're looking for a bill of sale on the one oxy bottle. We do have a Praxair nearby here so I might see if they could exchange it. Maybe they'll be easier to deal with.

    Central Welding Supply in Alvin said I could bring that tank by and they'd try to work something out. It's about 3 hour drive there and back so I'll have to work it into the schedule.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by idacal View Post
    here is the deal if I have a rented bottle slide out of a truck and get lost I get charged so they DO sell that bottle and its mine. so this stolen bottle thing is a scam, I called the cops on praxiar when they tried to seize one from me, they wouldn't fill but they gave me back my bottle.
    Exactly! No need for me to say this since you already did, and good on you for not letting them pull that crap! I know people who have had them taken like that and just walked away.

    I buy bottles on CL all the time, and I sell them too. When people buy them and question it I always say that to bring the tank bck and I will refund them if their supplier won't exchange it. Never had one come back. My prefered local has never questioned it. Find a different supplier, and don't bring it up yourself if they don't mention it.

  3. #23
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    Seems maybe things are not as strict as they were 20-30+ years ago? In the late 70's as a 19 yr old kid, a guy gave me a 135 Oxygen. I took it in to exchange, and they demanded paperwork.....or they'll call the sheriff. Or I can just leave it. I left it.

    4 months ago I took in an empty 300 Argon in to the local Airgas outlet. Airgas used to be Airco many years ago, and the neck ring said "Airco-Air Reduction Co" on it. I had that bottle for about 25 years. Luckily, the millennial's working there now do not seem the least bit ambitious about leases, or anything else for that matter.

    I did NOT ask. I set the bottle on the dock then went in and said I needed a full 300 argon. One of them did come out and look at the oddly orange and green painted bottle that didn't match any others on the dock. He even had to ask another if "Airco" was one of the names they "accepted" and said he never heard of or saw a bottle with that name on it before. Then he looked at the date stamp....1981 and said 'woah' that's OLD! Then he asked me if I had an account with them........aw shit. I said 'years ago' but I DO own that bottle. And in fact I do own that bottle, but lost the paperwork years ago. That was good enough, they wrote up the bill to 'cash' and I was all set. Years back if you didn't produce proof of ownership or had a lease, they'd get testy. Not anymore it seems. They needed to just get back to running their cell phones....

  4. #24
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    It's different depending on your area, local companies and time of day.

    I rent mine. No hassle that way...something like $7/month for the large size. I have 4 or 5 and also do 2 forklift propanes. Free delivery. It works for me but I change them out at least once a month.

    My old rented shop got sold and the handyman called ask if I wanted the welding tanks that were in another unit. I rode down and there were about 20 full size tanks in a room. Customer owned...blank neck ring but stickers indicated the same LWS. He called them and they wanted nothing to do with them.

    I took maybe 10 and started selling them. Same deal as poster above: if you can't make it work bring it back. None came back.

    I still have an N20 tank...didn't want to sell it on the open market...I might have a rave

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamscal View Post
    It's different depending on your area, local companies and time of day.
    Welding bottles seem to be as hard to get a handle on as DOT regs for 10k to 26K lbs trucks with trailers.
    I leased about 10 bottles for years, since the 70s. My LWS jacked the costs until I was paying over $500/yr for the 6 I had left, then they eliminated all but single year leases and jacked up the delivery and hazmat charges so I started looking. I finally bought several small 125 cf bottles. Here they are called "user owned" bottles, cost is about $200 each everywhere. The plus is that I can exchange them anywhere with any brand with no hassle, even at Tractor Supply or Ace hardware on a weekend if I have an emergency need. These are the largest bottles I can buy outright from a supplier. If I have a large job I can rent a bottle or two for a single month at a reasonable price from my new supplier and return it when done. All the half dozen or so local suppliers are on board with this, I thought it was nationwide. I remember in the 80s when the DOT or someone cracked down on swapping brands of bottles between suppliers, it was anything goes before that, and all the suppliers had to make deals to get their bottles back from the other suppliers. I finally had one off brand bottle left on hand and gave it to the driver to pick up, he had to call the store to get approval to haul it, seemed there were big consequences if a DOT officer caught him with another brand bottle on his truck.

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  7. #26
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    I've got at least a dozen bottles ranging from acetylene to mig mix to oxygen to argon to helium to co2. All owner owned by me. I bought most of them off of craigslist. I took some of them to the local welding shop and talked to the manager and he told me "look, I'm here to sell gasses". He traded them all for all full ones and charged me a minimal extra charge for the ones that were out of hydrotest.

    I like the 330 cu. ft. tanks because they last me for a long time. I keep smaller ones to switch over to if I run the big tanks out in the middle of something, then switch them back when I get the big tanks filled back up. I kind of wonder if they have a trade type arrangement between the gas companies to get their own tanks back.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I have yet to find one (been to 4 welding supply houses)
    Right. They don't hydro test themselves. It's a real specialty. I've had some tanks that went out of date and I paid a hydro fee and then exchanged them for other tanks.

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  10. #28
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    The local fire extinguisher supply house does all the hydro testing for my area. I go straight to the source for my hydro testing, and have him fill my CO2 welding tanks while I'm at it. $20 for the testing and $20 for the trouble of hooking the tank up to fill, gas must be free cause any size of tank seems to cost the same.

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  12. #29
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    I was trying to keep my own bottles for years - I gave up and surrendered to exchange. It's simple and cheap enough.

  13. #30
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    There are two LWS that I've used: AirGas and Haines. Both sell cylinders. Their customer-owned cylinders are limited to 160 cu. ft for the Argon and Mixes. They also sell 20 # CO2. I'm not sure if they limit Oxygen or Acetylene. The customer-owned cylinders are either not marked on the ring or are marked "Customer-Owned" . Both will let you exchange for Starred tanks which test better and are good for ten years.

    From Google.
    "A (+) sign indicates the cylinder may be 10% overcharged, and a star indicates a ten year test interval. Test date (month and year) of hydrostatic pressure tests. Depending on the gas, they are tested at intervals between 3 or 10 years at which time new test dates are stamped into the shoulder of the cylinder."

    When I first moved to California many years ago, I brought with me an Oxy-acetylene set of NCG (National Cylinder Gas) Moore wouldn't exchange them for me since NCG had gone out of business. I finally found a small Mom-and-Pop company near them and they exchanged them for me. Later on, Moore bought that company and then they got bought out by Airgas. so I wound up with Airgas. LOL

    I have two 160 Argons, one 20# CO2 and a medium set of Oxy-Acetylene and all are customer-owned. I've never rented or leased any cylinders. I feel sorry for my fellow welders in UK or Australia where they have big rental costs tacked on in the name of safety, I guess.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    I have two 160 Argons, one 20# CO2 and a medium set of Oxy-Acetylene and all are customer-owned. I've never rented or leased any cylinders. I feel sorry for my fellow welders in UK or Australia where they have big rental costs tacked on in the name of safety, I guess.
    I'm not sure that it's safety as much as protecting profits and a smaller market overall.

    There are deposit paid, non-rental bottles now, aimed at the low volume/hobby market, but they only go to about 200cuft.The gas (being aimed at the low end market) is more expensive, but the lack of rental costs can make the difference if you're only welding one day per week or less.

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    I will add to this that I have not had a bottle re-filled as I wait in probably 10-13 years. Afaik no one does them like that (around here) anymore. It is always an exchange for an already filled tank no matter if a rental or a customer owned. I think the hydro-test fee is $8-10 when I bring in a tank out of date. (I use Matheson here fwiw)

    I use all 250's except for a few small tanks that I got for easier mobility doing onsite work. If it costs me $30 to fill a 60cf it is probably $45 to fill the 250cf so it makes the most sense for the machines at the shop. I wouldn't want move around a full 330cf thats for sure!

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  17. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by johfoster View Post
    I wouldn't want move around a full 330cf thats for sure!
    Guys who did it full-time just grasp two at a go by the top caps, cross them at about a 20 degree angle, propel them across the dock by kicking the closest one right where they cross. Yah even learn to do it on hard-packed laterite almost as easily as concrete, "dry season". Wet season, over to those of us still under 30 years of age and over the shoulder goes the 153 lb O2 bottle [1] or 220 lb Acetylene jug. Mind - MOST of the time we used forklifts!

    And out of boredom, got into "contests".

    One of my crew chiefs positioned himself at the tailgate of a 5 T LWB GI truck. A team ON the truck was "placing", another team was on the ground "bringing". He single-handedly dead lifted NINETY average 220 lb Tare weight Acetylene cylinders from ground to truck bed height in a shade under 12 minutes, Long-Binh's typical 100-degree weather, yet..

    Next day, the OTHER crew chief cut it to 90 bottles in nine minutes flat!

    That's about one TON per minute, pure muscle power.. and with brains to back it up. 90th percentile-plus folks, USACE cryo techs had to be.

    I did say "most of the time we used forklifts"? The guys were fit, not foolish!



    [1] The weight of a 7 cubic meter bottle only differs by right about eight pounds of gas for O2, empty to full. Our two-ton cryotainers for LOX we cadged off Base Fuels, nearby Binh Hoa AFB, were what they sounded like. Two tons of payload.

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  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Guys who did it full-time just grasp two at a go by the top caps, cross them at about a 20 degree angle, propel them across the dock by kicking the closest one right where they cross. Yah even learn to do it on hard-packed laterite almost as easily as concrete, "dry season". Wet season, over to those of us still under 30 years of age and over the shoulder goes the 153 lb O2 bottle or 220 lb Acetylene jug. Mind - MOST of the time we used forklifts!

    And out of boredom, got into "contests".

    One of my crew chiefs positioned himself at the tailgate of a 5 T LWB GI truck. A team ON the truck was "placing", another team was on the ground "bringing". He single-handedly dead lifted NINETY average 220 lb Tare weight Acetylene cylinders from ground to truck bed height in a shade under 12 minutes, Long-Binh's typical 100-degree weather, yet..

    Next day, the OTHER crew chief cut it to 90 bottles in nine minutes flat!

    That's about one TON per minute, pure muscle power.. and with brains to back it up. 90th percentile-plus folks, USACE cryo techs had to be.

    I did say "most of the time we used forklifts"? The guys were fit, not foolish!

    I call fakenews!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Miranda View Post
    I call fakenews!
    Uhm....the part about crossing the caps and kicking it is true.

    I saw it once, and now I use it (just one bottle though) and it makes moving them soooo much easier.

    Lifting them...is still a beeg problem for me.

    I designed a bottle lift device to put bottles in/out of an ambulance.
    Much better.

  21. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Miranda View Post
    I call fakenews!
    Not OFTEN you are dead-wrong, but this is one time.

    We did some right rude stuff to get that job done. "Mac" Jones asked, we delivered.

    That once got a seniour LTC as was less than helpful relieved of command, 277th S&S Bn - re-assigned to report to an E6 in charge of MHE, Saigon Depot who REALLY wudda preferred a Vietnamese gal clerk.

    Wasn't until I read Mac's obit I knew why we got on so well. Favourite "customers" when a Combat Engineer has to clear obstacles or throw a bridge right into the teeth of active defenders, far bank, are the lads who will make best and fastest use of what we gave 'em to bring pee outta the former defenders, and "at once". Not later.

    "Boss" - and mentor - BG General Morton McDonald Jones, Jr. never was slow and steady boots, blankets, beans and boolits Quartermaster Corps. Assigned as CG, Saigon Support Command was just 'coz they needed BETTER.

    Fast-moving Armoured Cav recon, rather, second generation. Horses first, tracks, later. Hooves mostly for his Dad .. who'd shown the Argies Polo was OUR game easily as much as theirs, Buenos Aires, long time earlier.

    Morton Jones Jr., U.S. Army (Ret.) Obituary - Austin, TX

    Polo in the United States: A History - Horace A. Laffaye - Google Books

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    Well we sorted out a couple of bottles.

    I did some more googling and found an address and phone number for Gulf Oxygen. The phone didn't work, so I searched the address alone and found that there's now an auto shop at it. I called them and a lady said that they were the buildings previous occupants and that they were now down the street at Airgas. Called that welding shop and they said they had bought Gulf Oxy out awhile back and that they would exchange my cylinder. I took it down there, but the guy on the dock said they were out of customer bottles, so he sent me another mile down the street to ANOTHER welding suppy shop that they had bought out. Those guys were super easy to deal with and I now have a full Acetylene bottle with no names stamped on it for $75.00.

    We got the Praxair bottle sorted too. One of my dad's old welding connections who works for Praxair understood the problem. He personally came by and exchanged the bottle for us.

    So that just leaves the Central Welding/Airgas oxy bottle. When it's empty I might take it to the same Airgas as the one I took the Acetylene bottle to. They're further away than our local Airgas but closer than Central Welding.

    It kinda feels like when you get a Canadian penny as change and it feels like you have to sneak it to somebody to get rid of it.

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  24. #38
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    Glad you are getting them sorted out no problems it sounds like.


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