welding mild steel to cast

bigcrunch · Mar 3, 2010

I need to weld a mild steel plate to a cast iron wheel hub,
It was suggestd to use ESAB spool arc 83 anyone have experience with it?

I know to preheat the cast part.

gbent · Mar 3, 2010

Welding to cast is always an iffy proposition. Can you braze it?

This will be a non-critical part that doesn't even have to stand up to gravity, won't it?

Walter A · Mar 4, 2010

I agree 100% with gbent but if you have to arc weld then Nicore 55 is a better choice if you are using ESAB products.

Walter A.

bigcrunch · Mar 4, 2010

Nicore 55 is only cast to cast ??

Walter A · Mar 4, 2010

NICORE 55 <<< Link

Nicore 55 is suitable for joining grey, ductile, or malleable cast iron to itself or mild steel.

My first choice is gas brazing. My second choice to stick weld with nickle rod similar to above. My third choice is the above.

You criteria seemed to be MIG using ESAB products. I am more familiar with Lincoln products but ESAB is just as good as far as I know.

I would Braze and watch my heat, preheat, postheat. It's not hard just get a blanket and Temp sticks. If you do much of this an old kitchen oven will handle the pre & post heating.

Walter A.

John Madarasz · Mar 4, 2010

bigcrunch said:
I need to weld a mild steel plate to a cast iron wheel hub,
It was suggestd to use ESAB spool arc 83 anyone have experience with it?

I know to preheat the cast part.

I don't know that product, but lately I've been doing all my cast iron to mild steel welding with All State Super 4-60 1/8" rods. I've done a lot of high strength repair welds on machine parts, and lots of cast Iron to mild steel and old and new grey cast iron to wrought iron too (ornamental work) in the last year, and I've found this rod to be the best. It's strong, great welds and the rods don't overheat so you get a lot more mileage per rod.

preheat @ 500F and peen during welds...I bury in sand once complete for a few hours

MSC sells it...and if you need sale codes I have a couple good till friday...30% off for orders over $199.00 and free shipping for orders over $149, and you CAN combine codes...

atomarc · Mar 4, 2010

Walter A said:
I would Braze and watch my heat, preheat, postheat. It's not hard just get a blanket and Temp sticks. If you do much of this an old kitchen oven will handle the pre & post heating.

Walter A.

Walter,

I have repaired many items made from cast iron by brazing and have never followed any strict recipe for preheat or postheat and have never had any problem.

Brazing is preferred on cast iron because it doesn't melt the parent material which is where you get into trouble with the carbon and metallurgy of the CI.

IMHO, unless the welding process causes the cast iron to become molten then you are relatively safe from the cracking and embrittlement problems that come with welding cast iron.

While I'm certainly not a metalurgist this has been my experience.

Stuart

MetaRinka · Mar 4, 2010

atomarc said:
Walter,

I have repaired many items made from cast iron by brazing and have never followed any strict recipe for preheat or postheat and have never had any problem.

Brazing is preferred on cast iron because it doesn't melt the parent material which is where you get into trouble with the carbon and metallurgy of the CI.

IMHO, unless the welding process causes the cast iron to become molten then you are relatively safe from the cracking and embrittlement problems that come with welding cast iron.

While I'm certainly not a metalurgist this has been my experience.

Stuart

thermal stress is a function of temperature and is linear with heat input. Things like carbon uptake, grain refinement, currie temperature and lower critical temperatures also have effects on welding and welding cracking.

usually you can get away with Oxy fuel brazing cast iron because the heat input is rather uniform and has plenty of "soak time". so the temperature delta and gradient are much lower What is Thermal Stress? What are Thermal Stresses? is a good introduction into the topic. Also even if the part doesn't crack, high residual stress is never good.

The cracking issues are more likely to happen during the elevated temperatures associated with welding, but I assure you, you can crack a part while brazing.

Personally my vote is, JB weld, Braze, pre-heat/post-heat, short weld bead & peen. In order from easiest to hardest. The short weld bead technique is probably the most hardest to follow because no one wants to weld an inch at a time.

p.s: strongly thinking of doing my masters in metallurgy...

bigcrunch · Mar 5, 2010

here is what I have to work with, I dont think brazing will work.

I plan to preheat it accordingly and probably weld 2-3 inches stop apply some additional heat.

The ring will have some load on it as it runs.

Tom1 · Mar 5, 2010

I cant really see what you are trying to attach but, I would not touch that thing with a ten foot pole. That looks like a law suit waiting to happen. Run away fast and far...

RC99 · Mar 5, 2010

Tom1 said:
That looks like a law suit waiting to happen. Run away fast and far...

I agree, unless you are turning it into an ornament for the garden then run away...

Industry does not make products from cast iron and steel welded together for a reason...

bigcrunch · Mar 6, 2010

I have to join the 2 pieces, so if you have experience with doing so please share as others have alredy done,,,

JB @ C and L Machine · Mar 6, 2010

bigcrunch said:
I have to join the 2 pieces, so if you have experience with doing so please share as others have alredy done,,,

I have joined CI to mild steel, but was not a high stress application like yours. You are asking for trouble!!! :crazy:

Walter A · Mar 6, 2010

Looked at it several times and still not sure what the purpose would be. It doesn't look like you are planing to use the existing mounting holes and you have said it would have some load but how much only you would know.

Let say the load in minimal and can be handled by arc welding the iron to the steel. These are some thoughts....

1 - I would opt for stick over mig. It's just stronger.
2 - Cleaning both parts up is very important as is getting all traces of lube out of the cast iron.
3 - The bearing race bore will move when you are welding on the outside diameter.

I can think of easy ways to fix everything above except the bore changing. You have to remove the bearing race in order to clean up the cast part. You also have to preheat and post heat to keep the cast from cracking. If you do all of the above you will just have to be prepared to bore out and sleeve the bearing race.

Just thinking off the wall but would there be a machining solution. Maybe a disc and hub mounted to the turned down hub? Maybe using the existing wheel mounting bolts to mount a disc and spacer assembly?

Walter A.

bigcrunch · Mar 7, 2010

Walter, for stick welding what rod?

thanks for the responses trying to make a decision....

johnoder · Mar 7, 2010

Here are the ESAB Nickel 55 rods. There are many other makes.

Covered Electrodes - Cast Iron

John Oder

Walter A · Mar 7, 2010

2nd the choice. Easy to find and backed up by the factory. Most welding suppliers who have this might even help you with setting up your equipment.

Walter A.

John Madarasz · Mar 7, 2010

Here is the description for the ESAB Super 4-60 rod I mentioned above. Personally I would choose this rod over the nickel 55 rod for this application...ocicbw

ALL-STATE SUPER 4-60

ALL-STATE SUPER 4-60
The best electrode for welding cast iron to itself, to ductile iron or to dissmilar metals. Deposit is strong, machinable and crack resistant without porosity on thick sections as well as dissimilar thickness. Spray-like transfer. Rod won't overheat at rated amperages. Weld deposit has excellent color match to base metal.

Extra Info

Heavy cast iron machine bases, pump and differential housings: build up applications on cast iron dies, cylinder heads, engine blocks, heavy equipment parts, gear teeth,sprockets; joining cast and ductile iron to steel and cast iron pipe/flanges, housings.

Procedure

Clean weld area. Vee cracks using All-State Chamfer Rod. Critical applications require preheating of 500° - 600°F( 260°- 316°C) Maintain this temperature throughout entire welding operation. Peen lightly after each weld bead. Remove all slag between passes. Use a skip welding technique.Upon completion,cover casting and allow it to cool slowly.

Walter A · Mar 8, 2010

John,
This looks to be an excellent product but to answer you earlier question on the Nickel Rods this is the description from ESAB. They are correct as I have used it in the past with about as good results as you can get in that application.

Nickel-Arc 55 is designed for welding nodular cast iron to steel. This electrode's deposit is sound, crack-free and produces good color matching on gray malleable or nodular cast iron.

The All-state may be as good or better but I just haven't used it. I sure would be interested in the results.

Walter A.

welding mild steel to cast

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