what HP motor for old pyramid plate roller?

Rob F. · Sep 3, 2018

I have an old pyramid type plate/sheet roller that needs to have a motor added back on to it. I got it with no motor. It is 42" wide and rolls will open up pretty wide, maybe 1 1/2" or more.Top roll is 3 1/2" and bottom rolls are 3 1/4+" (3.28"), spaced 6" c-c apart.
It has gear reduction coming into it driven by what looks like a #2 morse taper driving a 16 tooth gear, this goes to a 72 tooth connected on same shaft to a 25 tooth driving another 72 tooth gear that spins one of the lower rollers. Lower rollers are geared together on the other end. Total reduction is 12.96 if I did the math right. Would this have been driven by a large hand drill? I dont know that I have seen a hand drill with a MT instead of chuck but...
I am wanting to get this back to working so need to put a motor on it but am not sure the HP & RPM needed. I am thinking the capacity might be full width of 1/8 or 3/16? No modern machines with specs I could find were similar in roll size/width.
I appreciate any help and or suggestions.

woodsrider845 · Sep 3, 2018

Huh. Mine (not the same brand) just has a hand crank. It also has 3 different grooves for round stock (wire) on one end. Yours looks like it'll do heavier stock than mine.

Sorry I can't help with your question. (kind of a weird setup, with an MT shank that way)

Ries · Sep 3, 2018

judging by roll size, thats about a 16 gage roll- a half horse should be fine, a horse at most. I have a 48"x 12 gage power roll, its only got a horse and a half motor.

Rob F. · Sep 3, 2018

woodsrider845 said:
Huh. Mine (not the same brand) just has a hand crank. It also has 3 different grooves for round stock (wire) on one end. Yours looks like it'll do heavier stock than mine.

Sorry I can't help with your question. (kind of a weird setup, with an MT shank that way)

I have not seen a lot of rolls but for its size this one seems to be pretty stout. For reference the end castings are 2 3/4" thick and the threaded adjuster is 1 1/4" I am not sure the MT shank is original or added at some point, I need to clean off some grease/dirt crust and get new bushings for the shafts. I see no evidence of hand crank attachment on what is there now. I could easily add one to the MT, I probably have a MT adapter that could be sacrificed for it but motor seems better. I have some 1/4x10 flatbar to roll into 36" circles soon.

Rob F. · Sep 3, 2018

Ries said:
judging by roll size, thats about a 16 gage roll- a half horse should be fine, a horse at most. I have a 48"x 12 gage power roll, its only got a horse and a half motor.

I have a 1/3 HP gearmotor that puts out 288 RPM, it might be a bit slow but I may try it. How fast does the roll spin on your machine? Or what speed does the sheet go into machine, slower is better but I dont want to be watching paint dry waiting for it to go through either, I have only used hand crank machines in the past.

atomarc · Sep 3, 2018

I would be very surprised if that setup could roll 1/4" X 10" flatbar. Rolling steel takes much more effort than you can imagine.

Stuart

Ries · Sep 3, 2018

I would agree that 1/4" x 10" into 26" circles is gonna be stressing the hell out of those little rolls. Generally, for 1/4" material rolls are in the 5" to 6" diameter range. My 12 gage rolls weigh a thousand pounds, and have 5" rolls. The rule of thumb for rolls is that doubling the thickness, say from 16ga to 11 ga, require FOUR times the force- which means that an 11 gage set of rolls is usually weighing in at 4 times the weight, and has really stiff construction.
And tight radii requires more power, stiffness, and force as well.

I dont suppose you have a lot invested, though, so you might as well try it. If it breaks, it breaks.

Nobody makes 1/4" rolls narrower than 48", but if they made a set of 1/4" x 24" rolls, my guess would be 2000lb weight of machine, 2hp motor, and 6" diameter rolls.

DDoug · Sep 3, 2018

I wonder if the OP would cut the rolls in half ?

Shorten them up to 24" would sure help in the bending problem.

Of course, the bearing housing and drive train won't be any stronger.

Ries · Sep 3, 2018

I would be worried about the cast iron, myself, and the relatively wimpy gears. I once had a 100 year old set of 22 gage rolls, and the gear were chewed up, one of em was completely trashed, from people trying to roll material that was too thick. I hand whittled a new one out of aluminum (no mill or lathe in those days- late 70s) and it worked, okay, for up to about 20 gage. Gears for a 1/4" roll are gonna be decent steel, solid without ornamental cutouts, and a couple inches thick.

Rob F. · Sep 4, 2018

Sorry guys I typed 26" instead of 36" in the post where I mentioned wanting to roll 1/4x10 fb. Not a lot looser a bend but will help.

I have some gear reducers and can chain drive them direct and not use the sexy old ornamental gears. Drive with a c-face motor and see what happens. Might have a 1 1/2 hp to put on it depending on what I have in stock. Have to think on it.

adama · Sep 4, 2018

With thickness its not just roll dia but how close thoes bottom 2 rolls are that truly decides your limits. im in the it might just be possible on that with enough passes camp, its sure as hell not going to do it in one go!

cyanidekid · Sep 4, 2018

putting a motor on a 150 year old cast iron machine (that might even be made for copper or brass) is a bad, and possibly quite dangerous, idea unless you have a clear grasp of its limitations.

work it with hand power first, (which is probably what it was made for).

although stout, I would peg it at about 16 ga capacity for full width sheet also, maybe even for annealed brass or copper given the small rolls and tight spacing, in that thickness.

sable · Sep 4, 2018

There did used to be MT taper electric and air drills ,I think they were banned over here on safety grounds.

DDoug · Sep 4, 2018

sable said:
There did used to be MT taper electric and air drills ,I think they were banned over here on safety grounds.

I have a couple (one air, 2 electric)....I can understand why:
A Grand Day Out Building A Rocket.mp4 - YouTube
FF to :40

Rob F. · Oct 24, 2018

Here is an update on my old roller. I got all the gears mounted to the frame I made out of an OLD 10" channel with "Carnegie" rolled into it, seemed appropriate for the age of the roller

. I had an old handcrank sitting around that had a hole in it a little bigger than the morse taper drive on the input gear. I turned a piece of tubing to fit over the morse taper and inside the hand crank, it is driven by 2 SHCS.

Rob F. · Oct 24, 2018

atomarc said:
I would be very surprised if that setup could roll 1/4" X 10" flatbar. Rolling steel takes much more effort than you can imagine.

Stuart

Here is rolling the ring I needed to make out of 1/4"x10" hot rolled steel flat bar. I did this in 4 passes. 1st pass after setting rolls to grip metal I turned the screws in 3/4 turns each and got a slight bannana. 2nd pass turn in another 3/4 turn and got a 49" circle. 3rd pass I only turned inn 1/4 turn on the screws and it went to 48" circle. 4th pass was 1/2 turn more on the screws and got 36" circle. It took 147 turns of the hand crank to get the 121" through the roller each pass, but very easy to turn with the gear reduction.

Rob F. · Oct 24, 2018

I will put a motor inside the frame driving the second gear shaft. This will mean making a new longer shaft for that, and I will also give it a stub out the front to slide the handcrank onto for faster speed on lighter materials. Motor will need somewhere in the 80:1 to 100:1 reduction to not overspeed the old machine.

Blazemaster · Oct 24, 2018

I have an old black and decker drill like this one, mine has a chuck but they could be ordered with a #2 or #3 morse taper instead.

Rob F. · Oct 24, 2018

Blazemaster said:
I have an old black and decker drill like this one, mine has a chuck but they could be ordered with a #2 or #3 morse taper instead.View attachment 240746

Do I see blazemaster teaches walace and grommit in an upcoming episode? :eek:

Sweet drill though, how old is the catalog?

Rob F. · Oct 24, 2018

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what HP motor for old pyramid plate roller?

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