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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRobs86 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I've been pretty straightforward with the shop that this batch of parts is no acceptable at all. The owner asserted that he thought I was trying to save money on some parts and his understanding was that these parts would be acceptable. He has taken strides to improve the quality of the cut. He still seems to think these parts were okay. I sent him the link to this post tp see if it changes his mind.
    I don't understand where the laser owner will save any money running like this .

    Higher speed ? less gas usage ?

    You tell that laser shop owner, that is these parts are "acceptable" as far as tolerances,
    not that nasty underside scale, that you'll be sending you work to a hi-definition plasma shop
    for even more cost savings, better than his laser.
    Last edited by digger doug; 02-09-2021 at 10:57 AM.

  2. #22
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    I used to program a 6kw laser and I've never seen slag that bad. I would have been nervous to bring those to my boss, let alone a customer. That will not tumble off, and you're going to spend a whole lot of time and elbow grease banging that hardened slag off just to come away with an ugly looking part.

  3. #23
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    Here is an update after I had some discussion with my friend at the shop as well as the owner.

    One thing I didn't mention is that this is an order for about 3000 total parts. Not a small order, but by no means a huge laser order. They are running really late. I was told the job would be done by mid January when I placed the order at the tail end of December. The 200 or so really rough parts I got from them so far was them trying to accommodate me after I fussed with them about how long the job was taking. Their (new) laser went down for 4 or 5 days in mid January. I was pissed they weren't about done since they were at their stated completion time when it went down. I got told they'd be working through the weekend to get it done when the laser came up, blah blah. As I said, the laser came up within a week and next week became next week, etc. Basically, four weeks into having the order they were able to deliver those 200 parts, most of which looked like what I posted in the OP.

    Total perimeter, summed across all parts is about 24,000 inches (excluding holes), just to put it in perspective. There are probably 20,000 holes across the 3000 parts, averaging about 1/4". I made the case that there is NO WAY it should be taking this long unless they are putting work ahead of mine. I explained that they should be piercing in 3 seconds tippy tops (probably more like 1 second) and running at least(!) 80 IPM (probably more like 120). As such, with rapids and sheet changes, this shouldn't be more than 40 hours on their laser. I told them to get this crap done and with better quality or cancel the order. I set a further condition that if they couldn't finish the entire order by the end of the week they were to freight me what they had at their expense and if they couldn't do that, to cancel the order. The owner replied that it would take TWO MORE MONTHS to finish the order that is already TWENTY FIVE days past the expected completion time. I replied to the owner asking if he had sent me that email by mistake, and if not to cancel the remaining parts immediately. When I saw the email I figured either 1) he's playing some passive aggressive game to screw with me after my complaints or 2) he was reading a couple different emails and crossed up my reply with that of another customer's. I replied gently, giving him the benefit of the doubt.

    I then get on the phone with my buddy who is the sales guy there. I asked him to confirm the owner was in the same planet as us and that he knew what he was replying to. My bud said it was correct and that the owner is trying to be conservative as they are having PROBLEMS GETTING ENOUGH NITROGEN!!! They've expressed this to me before. I know it can take a lot of nitrogen but I am baffled that 1) they aren't using oxygen to cut steel and 2) if they think they need nitrogen for cutting steel that they can't figure out where and how to get it. They are literally talking about getting one or two bottles from some other shop that cancelled their order with their gas supplier. It's about the equivalent of me telling a customer that next week we will have enough dirt on the shop floor to sweep it up and feed my water jet some abrasive for a few more minutes.

    I run a manufacturing business. I understand that things rarely ever go exactly right, that machines go down, supplies get interrupted, employees call in sick, someone screws up something that causes a delay, sometimes something doesn't get caught and you upset a customer, etc. I have never seen anything on this level of manufacturing ineptitude. I'm sure the owner of this shop took this on with good intentions, but it's become clear to me that the guy has different business ventures that have apparently funded this expensive job shop hobby of his. Its really out of respect for my friend that I haven't mentioned this shop by name, but I've told him to jump ship immediately as there is very little chance for this shop surviving. I should have known this was going to go south when their engineer got mixed up on some files we sent and literally thought and did not question that we were getting them to laser in some 5 thou holes in quarter inch plate. I do need the parts, but gave this job to them instead of my other 2 proven laser shops because I was trying to help my bud make a sale in his new job. I knew they were a new shop, but hey... Lesson learned.

  4. #24
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    I agree. Lesson learned. No good deed goes unpunished.

    But hey, maybe you can buy some stuff cheap at the liquidation sale.

  5. #25
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    Many shops around here have large liquid nitrogen, oxygen, and argon tanks out back.
    Some are as big as a semi trailer.

  6. #26
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    I was going to withhold their shop's name, but since they are withholding my money I feel obligated to mention that Haywire Industries ( Machine Shop | Haywire Industries | United States )out of Kalispell, Montana cut those parts. After the boss there (Bob) ignored me for several days, my friend (the salesman) gave me the #2's contact information (Jared). Jared claims that no one there made any commitments there about the cut promised time and can't yet compute my refund as he's still gathering information. I told them 10 days ago to refund the money for the parts not yet cut. I've talked with my friend (the salesman) who said the owner, Bob, told him to tell me the mid-January completion date and that he entered it into their system as such after relaying that to me. Jared claims this isn't true and Bob won't acknowledge me. Jared acts as though he needs to hold money for material. I've insisted that they've failed to make their material into my parts and as such are owed just for their parts. I've been in business for years and have never had a shop act this way.

  7. #27
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    Your in Georgia, and you sent the job to a shop in Montana ?

    shirly there are a few good shops much closer.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Your in Georgia, and you sent the job to a shop in Montana ?

    shirly there are a few good shops much closer.
    OP did say earlier he was trying to help out his buddy the salesman with the order...

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    Hmm.. you are having a problem with a joint called Haywire industries??

    I’d be inclined to believe you’r pulling our leg, but the link works, if you built a website to back up the gag, that’s pretty impressive!

    (And I’d hope you would have put some killer content on the site also!)

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    That is a pretty ironic name. Sounds like Bob has his head firmly placed in his backside. I hope you get it figured out, and would love to hear the end of this.

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    Yikes I just sent 15k of parts to be laser cut, they better not show up looking like that! The original prints specify water cut but we are trying to lower costs..

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    As a guy who has worked for some of the hokier laser shops, send them a picture of what you have and what you will accept. It goes a long way to not getting screw ups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strostkovy View Post
    As a guy who has worked for some of the hokier laser shops, send them a picture of what you have and what you will accept. It goes a long way to not getting screw ups.
    Well, that’s being optimistic... if the shop will unapologetically ship product like that, no picture is going to help..

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  15. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Your in Georgia, and you sent the job to a shop in Montana ?

    shirly there are a few good shops much closer.
    Yes I did. Again, I did it to help a friend I've known for over 15 years get going in his new position. They just cut his pay substantially and he walked out on them. He suspects it's as a result of me "stirring the pot" and for him standing up and saying that what they were doing to me was wrong. These guys are crooks. I'm mad at my bud for getting me involved with them in an effort to help him out. Robert Welzel is the owner and has refused to respond to anything I've sent for 2 weeks. Jared Mecham is his "manager" and hasn't responded after I told him we'd just let our attorneys sort it out.

    Moral of the story: 1) If you have a stupid name, it's probably accurate. 2) Don't help a friend in a new shop.

    What these guys at Haywire don't understand is that I'll get mine and then some from them. They are only making it worse for themselves.

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    Did you pay with a credit/debit card? Start the chargeback process. That will get their attention.

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    There is no talking to them. They don't care. The owner, Bob Welzel, is a sleezy guy. Check out Montana Gun Company and sone of the things said there to get an idea of the company he runs. He has some other companies that go by JDAPT, among others.

    Bob Welzel and Jared Mecham at Haywire Industries in Montana are just thieves. They still have the money and have delivered only a portion of the order, most of which was as bad as shown in the original post. They claim they won't refund the money because they"have material on the floor", but won't tell us how much. As they claim, it's my material, but they won't tell me what it is orr how much or how I get it.

    We now have an attorney in Montana working the case. He's going through the process and is confident of the win.

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    Working Principle of Commercial Air Dryer:

    JC series combined commercial air dryer is a kind of dryer specially developed for laser cutting. It uses the principle of refrigeration to reduce the temperature of compressed air, uses the water vapor in the compressed air to be supersaturated at low temperature and condenses into liquid water drops, and then separates the condensed water (including some oil and dust) from the compressed air by means of air-water separation and discharges it through the drainer, In addition, dry compressed air can be obtained. The unit is equipped with 4 high-precision filters to ensure the effect of water removal, dust removal and oil removal of the whole machine and the quality of compressed air.

  21. #38
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    Sorry this turned into such a shit-show for you, thanks for letting us know who the crap company is. Let us know how things go with the attorney and whatever legal steps you go through, hopefully the clowns will cave.

    [and the OT spam was reported]

  22. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRobs86 View Post
    There is no talking to them. They don't care. The owner, Bob Welzel, is a sleezy guy. Check out Montana Gun Company and sone of the things said there to get an idea of the company he runs. He has some other companies that go by JDAPT, among others.

    Bob Welzel and Jared Mecham at Haywire Industries in Montana are just thieves. They still have the money and have delivered only a portion of the order, most of which was as bad as shown in the original post. They claim they won't refund the money because they"have material on the floor", but won't tell us how much. As they claim, it's my material, but they won't tell me what it is orr how much or how I get it.

    We now have an attorney in Montana working the case. He's going through the process and is confident of the win.
    Well, if you google Bob Welzel, you see that he ran for the HOR and lost, and that he once sued the IRS, and lost.

    Unfortunately, Jared Mecham is the name of a semi-famous youtube personality, so that's all you find when you google that name.

    But, just for SEO: you're making it pretty clear that Robert 'Bob' Welzel and Jared Mecham of Haywire Industries are complete crooks that should never be dealt with for lasers, laser cutting, machining, fabrication, etc.

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  24. #40
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    I mean, they might not be crooks, they could just be incompetent?


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