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Thread: Aloris #71

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    I have an import BXA wedge toolpost and holders that works well for me, except for the sometimes less than spectacular results that I get using the style #7 parting tool/holder. My lathe is pretty rigid, monarch 10ee 3hp.

    I have been thinking of upgrading at considerable to cost to the Aloris #71 and using the .125" blade that holds GTN-3 inserts. Not a cheap proposition, about $200 total at Enco.

    Does anyone have any input on this holder and its advantages or disadvantages? Is it safe to assume it will fit my Chinese post?

    Thanks for the help
    Michael

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    Keep in mind that lots of vendors sell those same style cutoff tools that come with a holder block that fits into a standard Aloris type #1 turning/facing holder, and I've seen packages with 10 inserts for less than $200. J&L Industrial recently had one made by Hertel on sale for around $150. I don't know about their endmills and drills, but the Hertel indexible tools I've bought have been top notch as they're made by Kennemetal.

    Whatever you end up getting, make sure its one that keeps the cutting tip at the same height (on center) as you extend or shorten the stickout of the cutoff edge, the angled ones are a pain because you have to reset the center height when you change the stickout.

    Paul T.

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    I've used both, I like the versatility of PaulT's way better. MSC will sell individual GTN/GTR inserts, and they are also easy to find on Ebay. I like the GTR inserts to reduce the nib left after cutoff.

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    I've got the #71 and it works just fine. The only thing is it really takes a big bite. I find that I use the smaller Aloris cut-off block #7 with HSS blade much more often.

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    Hi, Michael

    I have noticed that some of the imported No. 7 style tool holders do not have as much "reach" as the Aloris No. 7 tool holders (or the DTM equivalent). This results in more tool overhang and increases the chances of problems. If your current tool holder does not protrude at least as far as the edge of the other dovetail on your tool block, your solution may be as simple as buying a different brand of No. 7 style tool holder.

    If you want to go to a tool holder that uses a slot grip blade and carbide inserts, another option would be to consider the Dorian No. 7-71C tool holder. Although I believe this uses a smaller blade than the Aloris No. 71, it allows you to use the GTN-2.2 inserts, which are only .087" wide. I think it is also slightly less expensive than the Aloris No. 71. I have the Dorian and it has served me well in my home shop environment. As always, your mileage may vary.

    Regards,
    Jim

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    Thank you all for your input. I like the idea of the thinner blade of the Dorian, also the cost seems a little better for the holder.

    One of my concerns is will a Dorian holder fit on an import post, I will need to check return privleges before purchasing.

    I do believe the #7 holder I currently have does cause me to have more overhang than would be prudent.

    Thanks again
    Michael

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    Michael, I have an AXA 71 with the .125 blade and replaceable inserts. I mount it on a Phase II post at home (an Aloris post at work). I got the one at work and it was so good that I got one for home despite the cost. That set up discounted to me by my local shop cost more than my entire Phase II set.

    Whereas my parting off used to look like beaver's teeth had parted the metal, it now is close to a facing cut. The 71 blade won't fit in a number one or two toolhoolder, and although those styles might be available for BXA, most had been discontinued for AXA by the time I needed one. The ultra deep blade held by the 71 is clearly part of its magic.

    I am highly pleased with this holder, and am no longer tearing my hair out over parting off. To me, it was worth every penny. Hope this helps.

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    Been doing some further research, uh, uh, I mean cruising thru the tool catalogs. I have noticed as others here have pointed out, the cut off and grooving kits that mount a block and blade in a # holder. The question I have regarding them is are they rigid enough to part off up to 2" diameter?

    I noticed in the current Enco sale catalog part NM891--6964 looks like a 5/8" tool block, cutting blade kit from Newcomer that looks reasonably priced, with the block , blade, and 10 .087" inserts. My concern is does this have the capability to part 1.5" to 2" diameter or is this best suited for smaller diameter cut off work?

    Thanks for your further input
    Michael

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    Don't buy the no brand "Made In USA" cutoff kit that Enco has in their catalog that has a blade and block meant to fit in a standard Aloris type turning block, I think this is either made by Newcomer or a copy of their unit. I tried one and it uses a bizarre "rocking" method to clamp the cutoff blade that only squeezes it on one end, leaving it prone to rock in the holder, looks like it would be prone to chatter to me.

    Paul T.

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    What is the difference between the #71 and the #77 toolholder. Both are listed as current products on the Aloris website. I know that the two toolholders use different heights blades, but they are both listed as "very rigid" and for heavy duty cut-off applications. I was thinking that it might be to allow for tool standardization or some such idea. Otherwise, why not just build the one that is "most rigid"?

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    I totally take back the bad comments I made above about the Necomer cuttoff tools. They should include an instruction sheet to explain this with their units, but after calling them they explained to me that the ends of their blade holder are meant to "spring down" on top of the blade, and you have to tighten them pretty hard to accomplish that. I tried it and it works well, so instead of sending this unit back I'm keeping it and now recommending it.

    These are now on sale from www.use-enco.com as "made in USA" units, but they are made by Newcomer and are the same as their entry level models, just minus the labels. I bought the 5/8" shank unit that uses the GT2 and GT2.4 inserts that are 0.087" and 0.093" wide. It comes with 10 coated inserts and is their part number 891-6964, currently on sale for $119.

    To test it out I grabbed a piece of 1" round 6061-T6 and a piece of 1018 cold rolled 1" round.
    With my lathe spinning at 2000 rpm (max of the machine) and a feed of 0.0022" per rev it went clear through the 6061 like butter, surface finish not great but very flat.

    I slowed it down to 1200 rpm for the 1018, still at 0.0022" per rev and it also went clear through the piece with not a hint of straining or chatter, definitely a first for me with a cutoff that aggressive compared to using a HSS cutoff tool. No surprise that the surface finish on the steel bar was worse, showing some tearing, but its pretty flat and would clean up with a very light facing cut.

    So now that I understand how the clamping works on this unit I highly recommend it, its well made and the best deal I've seen at $119.

    Another good feature of this unit compared to some of the competing units that take the GT2 inserts is that this one uses a full 26mm height blade, some of the other GT2 units use a 19mm blade. That means you can use this holder with the stiffer 26mm GT3 blade also if needed for larger diameter work.

    Paul T.

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    Paul, Thank you for the update. I have wondered about the exact set you are talking about and was dismayed to hear of your first experience with it. Glad it worked out.

    How deep a parting operation do you think you could reasonably do with that set up 1.5" , 2" ?

    Thanks again
    Michael

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    Michael, since this unit uses the narrower GT2 inserts the blade is pretty thin, 0.062". That's why I wanted a unit with the full 26mm blade height so it would be a little stiffer.

    Based on how well it cut the 1" bars, I don't think a 2" aluminum bar would be a problem, but 2" of steel would make me nervous with this blade because its so thin, I ordered a thicker GT3 size blade that fits in this holder also for bigger cuts like that.

    Paul T.

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    I ordered and received the Newcomer kit mentioned above. Funny the package comes with no mention of Newcomer, just made in USA but catalog states Newcomer, typical Enco nonsense I guess.

    As Paul mentioned there were no instructions. I could not clamp the holder down tight enough on blade to trap the insert. Pausing to think a bit I decided to clamp down blade with no insert in and then with brass bar and hammer popped the insert in. Odd, but it works fine and this set up parts like nobodies business. I ripped thru 3/4" oil hardened drill rod at 800 rpm feed of .0026 with no coolant. I am sure I could of done it at higher rpm but the chips were coming off purple as it was without coolant. Grabbed a piece of 1.5" aluminum, and made short work of it also.

    Nice set up, reasonably priced. I will probably get the GT3 sized blade as Paul mentioned to give me more rigidity for larger parting operations. Thanks to all for their input and suggestions.

    Michael C

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    Default Quick update 7/14/2019

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulT View Post
    I totally take back the bad comments I made above about the Necomer cuttoff tools. They should include an instruction sheet to explain this with their units, but after calling them they explained to me that the ends of their blade holder are meant to "spring down" on top of the blade, and you have to tighten them pretty hard to accomplish that. I tried it and it works well, so instead of sending this unit back I'm keeping it and now recommending it.

    These are now on sale from www.use-enco.com as "made in USA" units, but they are made by Newcomer and are the same as their entry level models, just minus the labels. I bought the 5/8" shank unit that uses the GT2 and GT2.4 inserts that are 0.087" and 0.093" wide. It comes with 10 coated inserts and is their part number 891-6964, currently on sale for $119.

    To test it out I grabbed a piece of 1" round 6061-T6 and a piece of 1018 cold rolled 1" round.
    With my lathe spinning at 2000 rpm (max of the machine) and a feed of 0.0022" per rev it went clear through the 6061 like butter, surface finish not great but very flat.

    I slowed it down to 1200 rpm for the 1018, still at 0.0022" per rev and it also went clear through the piece with not a hint of straining or chatter, definitely a first for me with a cutoff that aggressive compared to using a HSS cutoff tool. No surprise that the surface finish on the steel bar was worse, showing some tearing, but its pretty flat and would clean up with a very light facing cut.

    So now that I understand how the clamping works on this unit I highly recommend it, its well made and the best deal I've seen at $119.

    Another good feature of this unit compared to some of the competing units that take the GT2 inserts is that this one uses a full 26mm height blade, some of the other GT2 units use a 19mm blade. That means you can use this holder with the stiffer 26mm GT3 blade also if needed for larger diameter work.

    Paul T.
    Just a quick update 7/14/2019 to keep up with the times... Enco now owned by MSC, price of 891-6964 now $337.61. Good thing I make 3x as much as I did then. Oh, wait...


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