anyone done surface grinding on a vertical mill

carcrazy1 · Dec 3, 2006

This may be a stupid question but here goes .. I dont have a surface grinder in the shop but I do have a big vert. mill and I need to make up a few 6 inch steel blocks that are square and have a nice finish to use on my chassis jig ..I am thinking of using a large dia thick rimed cup wheel I already have mounted on an arbor in the mill and making some light passes to get the finish I'm looking for after milling them with the largest cutters I have (2 inch) ..Has anyone here done this before ? I already have aluminum guards made for the mill table and plan on using a shop vac to keep the grit under control ..

AndyF · Dec 3, 2006

Why not fly cut it? You should be able to get a nice finish with the fly cutter.

Doozer · Dec 3, 2006

Oh Man!...!...! Really, Don't do it. Grit is a slideway's enemy. Buy a used surface grinder for $700 and use that. If you insist on exploring this learning curve, use a depressed center fiberglass re-enforced grinding disc. Spinning an AO rock on there will blow up if you make one wrong move with the feeds. And God save your mill.
--Doozer

L Vanice · Dec 3, 2006

Steel soft enough to mill can be tough to grind smooth on a real surface grinder.

I have always had good results with fly cutters on my mill. You need to have a keen edge with a small radius on a carbide tipped cutter. Use a flycutter big enough to do the surface in one pass, if possible. Feed slowly and take a light cut on the last pass for best flatness.

Larry

[ 12-04-2006, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: L Vanice ]

stephen thomas · Dec 3, 2006

Go with the fly cutter. It will be every bit as accurate, probably more so.

To answer your question directly, I did grind blanks (surfaced them flat/parallel)for a few plane irons with a cup wheel on a mill-drill. it can be made to work. It is not really a good idea, and in your case with non-hardened steel, it would actually be counter productive. The plane irons I made were either heat treated O-1, or were CPM M4 welded to mild steel shanks and heat treated. Again, the CPM section being dead hard.

Anyway, the first time it was necessary to do more than one at a time, I borrowed time on a surface grinder. The day after that, i bought my first one (surface grinder)

smt

pepo · Dec 3, 2006

To even come close to working right the wheel should be running at 4000 sfm. Should you be able to get the wheel speed right the table speed will be a problem also. I respect your out of the box thinking though, its the root of all advancments in this industry.

carcrazy1 · Dec 3, 2006

The wheel I have is 12 inches in dia with cemented segments on a steel backing plate Its not a rock, and the steel blanks I'm using are military surplus armour plate so they are pretty hard not sure of the rc but you cant dent them I used one for an anvil on an air powered treadle type power hammer I built to make damascus knife blade billet on and it hits hard enough I had to move it out doors so I wouldnt crack the floor and its dent free ..I think I will try the flycutter deal first and see how it ends up .. I used 2 inch carbide inserted endmill to rough them in and I wanted to get rid of the little ridges left between passes so I'll only be taking off a few thou. I'm gonna use the blocks to rest mirrors on for a laser reference beam so I want something heavy and with a good flat top to make it easy to repeat my setups

jackalope · Dec 3, 2006

Since you mentioned that it is pretty hard stuff, don't even waste time with anything other than carbide in a fly cutter.
I would agree with the above comments as well. DO NOT use your mill for the grinding job you are after!
With that said, I F you opt to try it, make sure you cover everything that has an exposed surface. The dust will be drawn to it like a magnet.

jackalope · Dec 3, 2006

Since you mentioned that it is pretty hard stuff, don't even waste time with anything other than carbide in a fly cutter.
I would agree with the above comments as well. DO NOT use your mill for the grinding job you are after!
With that said, I F you opt to try it, make sure you cover everything that has an exposed surface. The dust will be drawn to it like a magnet.

carcrazy1 · Dec 3, 2006

Well it wont be the first time one of my brain farts got shot down ..Thats why I love this forum I get good advice everytime. I'm gonna go with the flycutter and slow feeds and see what happens .. I've been using the laser with it sitting on my jig corners and the beam has a little wiggle after bouncing around all the mirrors and I'm pretty picky with measurements on my chassis projects. at 200+ mph little flaws get magnified in a hurry and bad things happen

Norman Atkinson · Dec 4, 2006

Carcrazy 1,

In addition to the information given, it is possible to surface grind on a vertical mill.
There are quite a few small mills which are pretty rough on facing- and , of course, there is quite a lot of inaccuracy generated by flycutting. Believe me, the old English model engineering press was full of it at one time.

Again, Professor Dennis Chaddock who built the Dore Westbury Mill Drill to do a scale Vee engine used the grinding head of the Quorn Tool and Cutter grinder for exactly what you are trying to sort out.
Again, until his fairly recent death, Philip Amos, the New Zealander writing in Model Engineers Workshop wrote in exactly the same vein.

Clearly, you are on the right lines if your workshop and space are limited= as mine are.

Norm

dkmc · Dec 4, 2006

Auto machine shops flycut heads these days with 12" or larger face type cutters......
Remove all the carbide inserts and install 2 maybe 4
CBN or polly diamond ones...
Mirror finish is the result.
Almost seems too smooth for a head gasket to get a grip!

dan k

willbird · Dec 4, 2006

I was thinking old school would have been to lap them flat right ?

For pure flatness to the axis of the machinery unless I'm wrong a small endmill running all over the part will make it geometrically more flat than the flycutter will (due to tram error, it's never perfect). Then lap it smooth and polish it

something else comes to mind, I know we all do our own stuff, and it is a great skill to pull your butt out of a crack in a pinch, but I think those will fit in a flat rate USPS shipping box, and you could trade favors with a guy who does have a surface grinder

.

Did you trip over a large pile of the armor plate ?? I could use some to make 8" curcles from for a falling plate rack for pistol shooting.

Bill

Rex TX · Dec 5, 2006

"Auto machine shops flycut heads these days with 12" or larger face type cutters......
Remove all the carbide inserts and install 2 maybe 4
CBN or polly diamond ones...
Mirror finish is the result.
Almost seems too smooth for a head gasket to get a grip! "

Modern engines with iron blocks and aluminum heads (or vice versa) specify a smooth finish and a slippery gasket, so everything can move around.

john-san · May 24, 2018

carcrazy1 said:
This may be a stupid question but here goes .. I dont have a surface grinder in the shop but I do have a big vert. mill and I need to make up a few 6 inch steel blocks that are square and have a nice finish to use on my chassis jig ..I am thinking of using a large dia thick rimed cup wheel I already have mounted on an arbor in the mill and making some light passes to get the finish I'm looking for after milling them with the largest cutters I have (2 inch) ..Has anyone here done this before ? I already have aluminum guards made for the mill table and plan on using a shop vac to keep the grit under control ..

I was looking for some information on "grinding in a machining center" and got this. That armor plate runs between 42-52 Rc, and with a single point cutter with carbide will chip.
I was told Bosch was grinding the parts I'm working on in their plant in Germany (of course)but our customer had no success trying it. I saw someone mention the CBN tipped insert via fly cutter which are used in Rottlers for decking cast iron heads and blocks, they switch it out to PCD for aluminum product....but it is a rock solid machine.
GM Corvette plant uses a segmented grinding head in their production line after roughing w/carbide, semi-finishing w/PCD then finish grinding. Segmented helps prevent load up, and heat, which could work. Having a flat/parallel face to the part is going to be an issue, I DO NOT want to dress this in the machine, but realistically the best way.

The CBN plated radius wheel worked well for finishing bearing races for some oil/gas parts!!!
The above may be the way I go, no dressing of the wheel, and CBN pretty much dresses itself as it wears, chips and exposes new CBN?

YEE HAAAA!

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