Anyone operated a "rough terrain" crane before ? (photo) - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    I don't know in lbs for sure will guess 20,000, depends on size of machine. They go in yards of dirt, but saw them lift the back haf of scrapers when they hook them up after transporting them. Ask at a sand or gravel co. they should be able to tell you.
    http://www.jcb.co.uk/products/modelr...?id=2&ind=cons

    [This message has been edited by Kurt Westfall (edited 04-05-2003).]

  2. #22
    D. Thomas Guest

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    Re JCB link, I pass right by the American JCB headquarters in Savannah, GA twice a month. They have quite a spread on I95, with some equipment tastefully displayed on the sprawling grounds.

  3. #23
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    I think these pics are from New Zealand:





    And here's an informative site:
    http://www.craneaccidents.com/

    Seriously though Don, there is a machine built to do exactly what you described. I don't know the manufacturer's name but it a rigger's crane. It has a boom mounted high on the chassis so it can be horizontal and still be 8" above the ground, and the boom is relatively short so it can carry something touching the front bumper and still get in the door. I think about 20' is it's maximum lift. The boom could slew to the side but I'm not certain of it's range. It has large solid tires so it is stable without outriggers and can travel like a forklift. The most unique feature is that the wheelbase is hydrauliclly extendable! The rear steering wheels are mounted on a sliding frame that also carries the counterweight. Shorten it up for loading on a trailer and for getting into position, then extend it to increase it's carrying capacity and stability. A&A Machinery Moving Co. in Philadelphia has one and I've seen it in use. I'd guess it's capacity at 60 to 80,000 lbs. Sorry I can't produce a photo of it or give you any more information on it.

    There used to be yard cranes made by someone like Pettibone that were for carrying steel and etc around plants. Are they still made? They had dual truck tires on the front, some had 1 steering tire and they had short non-extendable booms.

  4. #24
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    Don, with most cranes you can't pick but a fraction of the rated capacity with the boom down. On most machines the boom must be somewhere around 60 degrees or higher to lift any kind of weight.
    Cranes are an OSHA nightmare anymore. I would go with a big forklift. Call your insurance and see which would be cheaper.
    A helper/rigger will save you a lot of exercise.
    Les

  5. #25
    D. Thomas Guest

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    I expected a "fraction" of capacity with the boom down, that's why I originally mentioned 15,000 lb load on a 56,000 lb capacity crane. But I also compared it to a 75,000 lb capacity forklift in it's maxed out capacity, which would of course be with boom in appropriate positions, outriggers maxed out, and setting the load down as soon as possible and then using skates and forklift to move machine into the building. It's only with the loads of a fraction of max capacity that I was wondering if you could drive the crane with.

    To you guys that keep saying "get a larger forklift" I challenge you to search the web and find me a 1988 or newer 75,000 lb cap forklift for $23,000 (i.e. what a 1988, 28 ton crane can be bought for) I'd be surprised if you can find one for less than $80,000.

    [This message has been edited by D. Thomas (edited 04-05-2003).]

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    Don, I'm surprised that you haven't found a big fork for pennies yet at an auction.
    Go to Google and do a search for "crane load charts". You will get many hits. Check this one out: http://www.gatwoodcrane.com/load_charts.htm .
    I think you will find you need some boom angle to pick a decent load.
    You can pick and carry loads OK. Cranes don't just turn over for the hell of it. A mistake has to be made somewhere along the line. Operate the machine within it's limits and you'll be fine.
    One note on operation, when you are static and operating, you will want to have the engine at high RPM's. The amount of control available with the hydraulics is greater. You have a much finer control. At idle, the hydraulics aren't as smooth and it is easier to bounce the load or get it swaying when trying to swing. That is the biggest problem when traveling, the low RPM's.
    Les

  7. #27
    D. Thomas Guest

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    Out of many many auctions I've been to, I don't think I've ever seen a forklift with greater than 30,000 lb capacity. I guess that's one reason the cranes are so much cheaper in the used marketplace is that they are much more plentiful...thousands of them out there compared to hundreds of 50,000 lb plus forklifts. Ironically, I would think the 28 ton and larger cranes probably cost more new than a 75,000 lb capacity forklift cost new....the cranes seem larger (physical size, not weight) and more complex anyway, so one would think so.

  8. #28
    Barry Briscoe Guest

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    D.,
    At the auction that I went to in TN a couple of weeks ago they had 2 Taylor 30,000lb forklifts a 1977 and 1975.They went for around 18-19K FWIW.Both had a liberal drenching of new red paint on everything,even the oil filters.I believe they were bought by someone over the internet.

  9. #29
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    Yeah that sounds typical. And a mid 1970's forklift is practically an antique compared to most late 80's or early 90's machines.

  10. #30
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    Most rigging companies around here use forklifts to shuttle the smaller stuff, but get the cranes out when it comes to the big stuff.
    L Webb, I understand what you saying about hauling large plates, but if my calculations (rough ones) are correct those plates your referring to only weigh in at around 3k lbs. Due to size and terrain considerations, it would have been interesting to move, but they still don't compare to a 15k machine of probably the same size and up or down a grade and around a corner.
    I think a venture of what your asking here can be accomplished, if you take your time, use your head, AFTER you have mastered the use of the machine itself. As a first time project, I don't think you would be wise to try to move the crane under load.
    I agree with you on JCB's equipment on I-95, especially those pieces out in the middle of the lake, on the island. (did you notice the shallow water ford?) Still have to get your feet wet to get them out there.
    I used to pick up loads at a couple of the exits just above there. Never saw that place when it needed mowing, or when it was being mowed...
    David from Jax.

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    David, those individual plates would weigh 3-6k and sometimes I had more than one in the plate shoes under the spreader bar which was heavy enough itself.
    I do believe that if I had the load up against the machine and the rear wheels are in the air while I travel, the 25T machine is maxed out. I also moved fabbed assemblies, coils, bundles of bar, channel and beams.
    Don was asking if anybody had operated an all-terrain crane and traveled with loads. I have several years experience doing it, not just an opinion about it.
    Les

  12. #32
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    I would think I was able to offer a little more than just an opinion also, but what the heck.
    I just thought 3k was a little bit lighter than what he was attempting to try.
    D.Thomas, Chaining the load to the front of the machine would help prevent some of the swing, but is not going to stop it. Make the chains a little shorter than needed so the machine is trying to swing away from the crane, but is stopped by the chain.
    Just be careful.

  13. #33
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    Dave-
    I looked through the Volvo construction machinery website and found that the lightest 'static tipping load' for a wheel loader was 11508 pounds, at full turn. They went up from there to 69480 pounds. We use the one here for lots of heavy moving, with the fork attachments. Of course, a wheel loader that can't move with a full bucket isn't much good.

    I'd expect that other wheel loaders are similar, and think you should check into the wheel loader option as others have suggested.

  14. #34
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    Wheel loaders can pick some good weight. They are not really the best machine for handling a machine tool. They are best suited to handling constuction materials.
    I have unloaded and been unloaded by many wheel loaders.
    The problem is with the design of the hydraulics for lifting and tilting the buckets. The geometry is not the best suited for a careful precise lift. On some machines you have to tilt a load back before you pick it because once the weight is on the forks you cannot tilt back.
    I ended up with many scars and gouges in the bed of my trailer from trying to unload lumber and plywood with just about every type of earthmoving machine found on a jobsite.
    Many machines could do it but a forklift or crane are the easiest and safest.
    Les

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    Don, I know someone who has a 40k royal forklift for sale, nice truck, but don't know the asking price. If One was serious about this though, why not just pick up a used 50 ton bridge type top running crane and set it permanent where you load and unload. drive the semi underneath, lift it up and drive the truck out. Seems a big bridge crane like that would be the best way to get where you want.

  16. #36
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    Rather than a boom crane, find a used hydraulic gantry. They make nice 100 ton sized units. They are basicaly two hydraulic cylinders on wheels, self propeled. With a I beam cross bar over the top of them. Simple to set up, place them on the floor standing up, place the beam on the top. Connect the hydraulic lines. If you need to work on pavement you might need to put down steel runners, plate, C-channel. Heres a few samples, there big ones but they do come smaller.

    http://www.buyacrane.net/pdf/page8.pdf

    http://www.barnhartcrane.com/surplus_equipment.php

    This is what a rigger would use inside a building to move and place large equipment.


    Tom

  17. #37
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    Probably out of the price range, but have you considered a "travel lift"? We used them at the prestress yard I worked in, and they can do alot of work. They require a spreader bar for most of the work we did, and one of the crane operators tried to pick up a 54"x26"x101' concrete beam with one. Might have made it, except somebody forgot to cut one of the hold-downs. Made a pretzel out of that spreader bar.
    You see them in boat yards, for picking up boats and putting them in dry storage. Basically a four wheel rolling over head crane.
    David from Jax

  18. #38
    D. Thomas Guest

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    As someone who owns a 38 foot sailboat I'm well familiar with travel lifts. But talk about transport problems...definitely a disassembly/reassembly project. Also, these are arranged with the cables at the right and left extremes for cradling the hulls of boats...not for lifting at the center.

    You guys keep conjuring up, why not use this or that..with some of the "this or thats" excellent alternatives given suitcases of cash. But the sad reality is only rough terrain cranes are in great supply and therefore just about the only choice for lifting loads beyond 30,000 lbs that is relatively inexpensive.

    Still, I'm open for other options..keep 'em coming...just think seriously about what it actually cost for a "good 'un" I suppose one could buy some decrepit 1950's crawler crane for $1,000 but I'm wanting something late model with few "fix it" issues. Thanks for all the responses so far.

    [This message has been edited by D. Thomas (edited 04-08-2003).]

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    Don, you could make the crane more stable by filling the tires with the foam that is used to make construction equipment flat proof. It's pumped in as a liquid and then it expands and hardens. I did it on the front tires on a loader and it definitely took 80% of the bounce out of it. It's not recommended for high speed use however, because of heat and balance issues. Makes 'em heavy, too.

  20. #40
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    I worked as a millright in a sunflower processing plant, and had many occasions to move machines at least as heavy as what you have in mind. As long as you are on smooth surfaces and keep your wits about you, it can and does work. I used a 30 ton rough terrain crane, lots of times with the boom as close to horizontal as I dared, and as long as you were boomed in all the way, 20000 lbs was doable.


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