Cincinnati Tool Master Mill Questions 1D???
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  1. #1
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    This is my first post here so forgive me if I've posted this in the wrong forum. I just bought a Cincinnati Toll Master mill and have some questions about it. I haven't even had it shipped to me yet but I'm trying to prepare my shop for it. From what I've been able to tell by searching these forums and reading on the 'Net this is a 1D model. Can anyone confirm this? I'm also curious if anyone would know the height, width, depth, and weight for shipping. Does anyone know what the electric is on this thing? Is it 220 or 440? 3 phase? Did all of this specific model come with the same motor and electric requirements? What type of tooling does this thing take? In the pictures below I've included images of some of the tooling. Not sure if it's NMTB, V flange, BT flange, etc. It does appear to be 40 taper spindle. Does anyone know where I can get a manual for this thing? Sorry for all the questions but I'm a bit lost here! I will try to include the photos in this post but if they don't show I'm including links to them as well. Also, any clue what this thing would be worth? I know it's been repainted but it appears to be in excellent shape according to conversations I've had. Just curious if I paid too much. Thanks for your help!

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    I believe it is a 1D
    I used to have one very much like it and the motors are all 220/440/3/60... unless it was built for export then it could be different.

    It will have a disconnect switch at the rear of the column and inside the door are the starters and controls and transformer.

    If it's not wired for YOUR voltage, you will have to rewire each motor, SPINDLE, TABLE FEED, COOLANT PUMP and then change the transformer and the heaters.

    The spindle is a 40 taper... that was built long before there was ever a Cat anytaper, but if you have Cat40 tools they could fit IF THE DRAWBAR THREAD IS THE SAME.. I had one sitting next to a Cincinnati CNC verticle and the toolholders could interchange..

    As for the tooling shown?... GOOD DEAL... you will like it... and as for what it's worth?.. bout double what any bridgeport would be worth.

    Ohh... that toolholder in the middle? the scrungy looking POS?... THROUG THAT DAMN THING IN BUFFALOE CREEK BYUE...or the closest crik.

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    yep, a 40 taper ,just like mine , except yours has a nice
    mitutoyo dro. ...it weighs about 3000# ,and is a bit
    shorter in stature to a bpt of similar table size.

    what i'd call a stout beast. the large quill
    and 40 taper translate to heavy cuts w/out complaint.

    mine will easily hog twice the steel of my
    HAAS vf3 , it just won't quit. the pancake motor
    looks dubious, but that old 2hp , duty factor 1.4 translates to a modern 3 hp rating and then some.

    yours looks like the 1.5 hp , but it's not the hp that makes the mill...it's the iron behind it.

    if you want a manual , email me... about 20 bucks at
    kinkos copy + shipping (45 at cinci-lamb ,or whatever they call themselves this year.)

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    I designed a new drawbar for my machine and mounted an AirPowered Drawbar motor on it. That really made changing tools fast.

    Looks like the Quill Clamp Lever is missing... No big deal, easy to replace it.

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    So would this thing take standard NMTB tooling? I'm new to this! What is the tooling shown in the pics? NMTB? V flange? B flange? You don't happen to have a scanned manual I could buy from you electronically do you? So this could be 220 or 440? Guess I'll have to wait till I get it to find out. Any estimate on value?

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    It's the standard milling machine 40 taper....
    NOT Cat...NOT B

    The market and it's condition sets value... from here it looks pretty good condition, but you need to turn the handwheels to see how it feels.

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    standard NMTB 40 taper. the one w/threads at the top.
    cat/cv/bt/ whatever have a pullstud for a toolchanger.you ain't got one.
    value: +/- $3k .
    the older model 1-b isn't as valuable b-cause
    of proprietary collet issues.

    i don't have scanning anymore. the $300 canon
    scanner i used became obsolete w/winXP ! no drivers
    available for this POS software that uses half my
    RAM to idle(512mb)

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    Thanks for the info guys. I paid $2K for this thing so hopefully I'll find that it was worth it if I ever resell it. I'll start trying to find some NMTB tooling and hopefully someone has a manual somewhere in digital form. Tnmgcarbide, thank you for offering to copy yours. If I can't find one digitally I'll let you know.

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    As for it's height, I am 6'6...and it's taller

    Get the guy that has it to use a tape measure...geeze

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    You’re really going to like this machine, the foot print as shown in the 1-D manual is 78” across by 55” deep. The machine is 79” tall and weighs 2850 lbs. Its different then a Bridgeport in that it doesn’t use a “through the spindle” draw bar. The following describes loading tooling in the spindle as stated in the operator manual.

    The machine incorporates a No. 40 national standard taper with a built-in draw-in-bolt. Tools are tightened from the bottom rather than the top: draw bolt locking device holds draw-in-bolt stationary while you insert tools.

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    He is willing to copy and send you one for 20buks... better take the deal... NOW, before you go git the machine and find out things SOONER is better then later...

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    Fair Warning! That is one top heavy SOB. I have one and I know. Value decreases greatly if you drop or lay it over. Strong mill and well built. Yours has power on X and Z but not on the Y it appears. Careful with the powerfeed on the spindle. Some kind of Phenolic gear drives it. These are bad about leaking at the spindle seal too, as I add oil regularly to mine.

    Tools are tightened from the bottom rather than the top
    You might have this one confused with another. It has a through spindle bolt which can be held at the top with a lock. But if things get really tight, with spindle fulled retracted, a bolt will show itself out the top of the machine. I've had to rap it a time or two.

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    Thanks very much for the dimensions and weight! I found the manual online on CD for $13.

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    tnmgcarbide
    what i'd call a stout beast. the large quill
    and 40 taper translate to heavy cuts w/out complaint.

    mine will easily hog twice the steel of my
    HAAS vf3
    Wow... a Haas must really be a whimpy machine..

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    I have one of those too, and I can say it is a very nice machine. When working on it you feel as though you are working on a nice classic. I just love the shape of the head of the machine and the way the castings look. It is very artdeco style. As for the machine it is a real stout and strong machine. I learned on this machine and making the transition to a summer job on a Bridgeport was painfull. It took 2 crashes to teach me how much more rigid my toolmaster was. Cuts that would be no problem in the Toolmaster crashed the Bridgeport! Here's a picture of mine


    One old time machinist that I know said if he could have his ideal machine shop it would have a Monarch 10EE, and a Toolmaster, so I guess that put this machine in quite the category. As for the machine you bought, it looks to be configured in the best way possible. They took out that stupid Monoset collet set that was rare/fragile as can be, and put in a standard and nicer ER-40 set of collets. That is what I did and would reccomend to anyone buying that machine. As for price. I paid $1000 for mine. When I got it the power feed was busted (3 nights of work) and it had the Monoset collets in it. Since then I fixed the power feed and got the ER40 collets to replace the Monosets. One day I'll buy a DRO, so I'd say you did pretty darn well. They don't make them like this anymore.

    This machine was Cincinatti's answer to a Bridgeport. However when Bports would sell for $1500 each in the 1960's a toolmaster would sell for close to $10000 each. With the exception of big government contractors most shops couldn't justify the extra expense despite getting extra machine.

    Adam

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    Wow... a Haas must really be a whimpy machine.. "

    not really, just a different design. a lightweight
    cnc machine that's it's own features. maybe can't
    hog steel w/ 1" roughers like the toolmaster ,
    but can remove aluminum w/ carbide at 7000 rpm
    and 200ipm at its own pace . different machine for
    a diff job.

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    Far better than the ER-40 is a 40 Series Kwik Switch collet chuck , as solid as the machine, fast and you get tool length repeatability, you’ll hate any machine with R-8’s after using this. Tool holders run $15-$50 on E-Bay, occasionally I see a c/chuck on E-Bay, goes about $150.

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    Can anyone identify the model of Mitutoyo DRO from the picture?

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    Can anyone identify the model of Mitutoyo DRO from the picture?

    absolutely.

    it's just like the one i'd want to
    have on my machine....

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    Never mind, figured out the DRO.


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