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Coolant vs cutting oil while machining

PineRidge

Plastic
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Location
Northeast, Ohio
My question relates to the coolants used on lathes and other machinery. Since some coolants are diluted with water does that combination cause problems for the lathe itself in the form or rust and corrosion down the line?

Is it better to pump coolant or cutting oil while machining?
 
A loaded question for sure. In traditional, manual machine, HSS tooling type of application common to the home shop, using a cutting lube is the way to go. (IMO) I have never seen a flood coolant system on a shaper for instance. In a production environment where cutting speeds are greatly increased a coolant is needed to maintain tool life.

Yes water based coolants can cause rust problems, and they also go rancid and stink, and I mean REALLY stink.

Personally if I am not going to cut dry, which is most of the time, I brush on heavy cutting oil. The exception to this is cutting aluminum where I like kerosene or WD40. I hear milk works great for aluminum but I have never tried it.
 
Coolant such a fun topic, you can get a real good rise over in the CNC forum. Will a water soluble oil or synthetic mixed with water rust your equipment. Maybe, depends, and possibly, though not very likely. There are a lot of factors that can go into it. Most coolants contain some kind of rust inhibitors, some are better than others.

A few simple rules of mine, NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER buy coolant from a place that sells floor wax. It will be crap, and you will have no technical support and believe me there is a lot of technical aspects to coolant, its actually fascinating.

My second rule is NO contaminants, if you have a coolant that requires aditives to not smell don't use it, or a coolant that has "biocides" in it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, treat your sump like a fish tank (with the exception of fish food), contaminants, such as bleach, soap, sulfer based oils, food, spit, trash, gum, tobacco etc.. can make your coolant do funny things.

Is it better to pump coolant or cutting oil while machining?
This is also a fascinating topic. More and more people, including me are going to a lot dry machining, not for enviromental reasons, but for performance reasons. When your really hauling ass, you want the heat to go out with the chip, this can get your tool pretty darn hot and carbide, ceramic and all the new polycrystaline stuff don't take thermal shock too well. Not as big of a concern on a lathe when the tool is in the cut for a long time, but on a mill, its critical since the cutting edge is in and out of the cut constantly. Its a really neat concept, you end up with really hot chips, sometimes red or white, sometimes just really hot, the tool is warm and the part is still cool to the touch or at least touchable.

So why do you use coolant to begin with, it keeps things cool and lubricated. How does it keep stuff lubricated, chlorinated parafins, they act the same as sulfur in a sulfur based oil, but come into play at a lower temperature. Under heat and pressure the chlorinated parafins create aluminum chloride, or titanium chloride or whatever your cutting and this is almost the same as a TiN coating just thinner, and consistantly forming and disappearing.

So when would you want to use coolant, when running softer metals, or when simply not hauling ass. With HSS you'll almost always want to use coolant to get the most out of it, since your probably not going to get to the point of keeping the heat out of the part or tool, just too slow. When the tool stays in the cut, you'll usually but not always benefit from coolant.

Now if your just having fun on open machines, and not trying to squeeze every dollar out of your spindle, run it dry and run it a little slower, use an air blast or a spray mister, keeps the mess down.

Hope that helps a little.
 
Yes water based coolants can cause rust problems, and they also go rancid and stink, and I mean REALLY stink.
I'll disagree on this, if your rusting and stinking, either your using some real crap or your doing something wrong. Though yes, they can stink, and it can be absolutely disgusting.
 
Sounds to me like there isn't a black & white when it comes to machining lubrication/cooling. Very interesting indeed and I think at this point I'm a bit swayed toward the use of oil. I have seen quite a bit of heavy machinery at eBay that looked like it resided underwater most of its useful life hence the question. Thanks for the responses guys.
 
Asking a blanket question about cutting fluids is like asking what kind of truck to buy or what kind of mower to use. Everybody out there has a different answer. Bob has said about as much as you can. This is one of the subjects why I don't go into the CNC forum anymore (a few to many buttheads).

Specifics will get you a lot further when asking questions. What kind of lathe? What kinds of materials? What kinds of operations?

Like many others, I use a squirt bottle full of a full synthetic water based coolant for drilling on the lathe and mill. I try and keep this at a 10% concentration so that I don't have a rust problem. I use the coolant in my surface grinder so I have a stock at hand. When my present supply runs out, I'm changing brands to what we use at work. Probably the best synthetic that I've ever been around...TruNorth Syn B.
JR
 
being an HSM, I use HSS tooling. I started out machining steel dry, but found that by brushing on a wee bit of cutting oil improves the finish, enormously.

It's the same way with aluminum. By brushing on kerosene the finish is mirror-like and there is no build-up on the cutting edge.

I'm sure there are people who disagree, but when the base metal starts building up on the cutting edge one can forget about obtaining a decent finish.

Orrin
 
Coolant issues also depend a great deal on the metal being machined. You can get away with stuff in non-ferrous that will cause all heck if you were machining steel. And you can get away with stuff machining steel that would cause all heck machining cast iron. From my experiences over 20 years with mostly water soluble oil type coolants cast iron is the most demanding...it just loves to cause coolant to turn to sewage.

Drilling holes on a bport or in a lathe a 1/10 mix of water soluble oil in a squirt bottle works nicely...less smoke and slime than sulfer oil, and it helps the tool live I think. I have not had rust issues with it mixed that way. In thinking about it I guess I put it down the hole more than on the tool.

Bill
 
I can’t help but notice that nobody has mentioned chip evacuation. Using a steady flow soluble oil increases chip removal by over 500% compared to occasional spraying or running dry. Having chips, or tiny fragments thereof, in your cutting zone will noticeably affect your finish. High pressure spray virtually eliminates the chip issue altogether - not practical in the workshop though. lol
So cooling and chip evacuation are the main reasons to use soluble oil. Lubrication is a lesser factor in ferrous materials. NY CNC on YouTube has a good video where he installs a $30 water filter in his coolant line which apart from stopping metal fragments - prolonged the ‘life’ of the coolant enormously.
As for rust, using any water based products will eventually rust your lathe. If you turn a job and leave your lathe sit for a month it will have rust. I always brush off all chips, wipe the machine down and use a light 20W oil (another contentious topic) on the ways, beds and slides even if I’m going to be back at it the next morning. It’s 15min well spent and the exposed surfaces on my machine still looks as good as new.
That’s my 2c worth anyways. Cheers.
 








 
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