Enco's 7x12 bandsaws ?

I need to add a horizontal/vertical bandsaw to my home shop, and have been considering the 7x12 Enco and the similar Turn-Pro that Enco has on sale this month. I'd like to hear from anyone who's actually seen or used one of these machines. Is the design and manufactoring quality reasonably good? The picture of the Turn-Pro appears identical to the saw that Northern Tools sells, which I have seen. It seems to be a pretty well-made machine, so I assume the Turn-Pro is too?? And generally, is there any *real* difference - other than price - between "Enco" machines and similar "Turn-Pro" machines? (Yes, I know that all machines are made in one factory in China. )

The "Turn-Pro" machines are supposedly made in Taiwan rather than mainland China and are generally of a higher quality. That was what I was told when I bought my machine, don't know if it is still true.

I have a 7x12 Turn-Pro gear-head bandsaw and think it was a fine value for the money. Decent quality, good value.

George

I have an enco 7X12 and it does a great job. Won't compare to a $3,000 saw,but the most important thing is to order a good bimetal blade with it and throw away the chinese blade.
Michael

NM-
This is actually a very interesting question. I did quite a bit of research on these (Chinese) imports a while back when I was in the market for a milling machine. Though not necessarily made in the exact same factory, all of these machines are made in a loosely related group of factories interspersed in both Taiwan and Mainland China, who share the same basic plans, parts, and raw castings. These factories coordinate with the various marketing groups (Jet, Grizzly, Harbor Freight, etc.) to allow each to specify different features and degrees of “fit and finish” in their machines. This “customization” allows each brand to differentiate itself from others and appeal to slightly different market segments and price ranges. This is very similar to the Western model where a company such as GM markets what is essentially the same vehicle under different names such as Pontiac, Olds, Plymouth, etc. with only minor differences in appearance and accessories between them. In the Chinese situation however, these differences are more clearly defined in a range of “quality grades”, from low to high, that follow price (the technical, Harvard MBA school term for this is “vertical differentiation”).

From what I can tell, the “quality grades” of the various brands (from low to high) are:

1. Harbor Freight, or any of the Generic machines sold under the brands General Machinery, Central Machinery, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc. (note the clever use of American names).
2. The generic Enco brand of machines.
3. Grizzly
4. Jet
5. Jet Gold series, Grizzly Z series, and Turn-Pro
6. Birmingham
7. Powermatic, Webb, and Wilton machine tools

From my experience, I won’t even look at anything from groups 1 or 2 anymore, they’re pretty much junk, while grades 4 and above are starting to show fairly decent quality now. Note also that the Turn-Pro (carried by Enco) is the same as the higher end Jet and Grizzly. Incidentally, when I discovered that all of these machines, regardless of ranking, still contain some parts made in Mainland (Communist) China, I became soured on the whole import route and decided to purchase a used, American made, Bridgeport. Hope this helps…

RP

Im stealing your post if u dont mind...

I bought the Grizzly 4030 3 years ago. It's been a flawless machine basically, however three things:
1. the wheel system sucks, put a base and wheels or legs on it right away, not just cause they're cool, but the machine badly needs rigidity.
2. The hydraulic feed isn't very rigid either. When you build your base, attach the cylinder to it.
3. The acme screw in the vise is soft. I purchased some left hand acme stock from MSC and made my own.
My 2¢
Ed

Thanks to all for the replies, and especially to Rpmachining for the details on the Chinese manufacturing system. Other than the issue of Comunist content, I haven't heard anything to change my original inclination toward the Turn-Pro saw (with a bi-metal blade!). In the case of bandsaws I don't even know if there are any American-made saws, or how long I might have to wait for one to show up on the used market in my price range. I can't wait too long - I'm beginning to hate my hacksaw.

Rpmachining, I hope you were satisfied with your choice of the used Bridgeport. One of these days I hope to stop working on mine and actually use it!

NM-
Sounds like you've had a less than positive experience with your mill. A few months back, I purchased a mid 70's BP that had just been rebuilt and rescraped. Since then, it's been an absolute pleasure to use, I have only good things to say about it.

As far as the band saws go, I also agree with the comment about getting a good quality blade. I'm sure a premium Starrett or Milwaukee blade will do wonders. The only other thing I can suggest to watch out for are the blade guides. I learned this when I bought one of Harbor Freight's 14" wood working bansaws a few years ago. The stock blade guides were an absolute joke. After spending months trying to rig up a fix, I finally broke down and bought a set of Carter precision bearing guides. I also replaced the cheesy table trunion system, and upgraded the stock fence. Now the saw cuts like a champ, but with all of the upgrades, I would have been better off buying a good, quality bandsaw from the start, such as one of the European imports from Laguna Tools.

I have looked at some Turn-Pro stuff before, they definitely are much higher quality than the HF machines. Let me know what you think about it if you buy it. I'd be interested in hearing some first hand opinions on this brand. BTW, did you look at the Wilton band saws? They make a 6" X 10" that sells for about $800 and a 7" X 12" for around $900. They look to be built a bit heavier than the Turn-Pro.

RP

I've always liked the look of the Wilton products (in the catalogs, never actually seen one) but their bandsaws I've seen advertised have been horizontal only. I think I need vertical capability for small hand-held pieces. All in all, the 7x12 Turn-Pro at $700 and free shipping (sale price this month) appears to be the best deal for me right now, with the possible exception of a local used saw that I need to go look at. But I think it'll be the Turn-Pro that comes to live with me.

(off-topic, sorry) My 1963 Bridgeport experience hasn't been TOO bad. I got it at a pretty good price but it turned out to have three problems that took quite a bit of time but not large $$ to deal with. I'll post details on the Bridgeport list if anyone is interested. (Now I'm a lot better qualified to shop for a used Bridgeport!) But there's the cleaning and painting still to go...

Thanks for all the thoughts on bandsaws. This forum is a great resource. I'll post my review of the Turn-Pro if/when I get it.

I have the Enco 7x12 bandsaw and I like it! Cuts anything I put in front of it, from 6" drill casing to alluminum to titanium, and doesn't even wimper. For $540, (on sale), I can't complain.

I had suspected the Enco 7x12 might be a good saw, 'cause it looks just like the Northern Tool saw I've seen. Which makes me wonder again *exactly* what I would get in the Turn-Pro for the $160 differtnce in price. Heavier sheet metal? Ball bearings? Pinstriped paint? If it's only a cosmetic difference then I have better places to spend that $160. Actually, looking at the ads again just now, I can see a few differences. The Enco motor appears to be 120 volt only, the gear housings are different, etc. May really be some extra value there.

OutlawSmithy, do you run coolant when you cut drill casings etc.? Do you use bi-metal blades? And, how well does that Enco 7x12 work as a vertical saw?

thank you for the posts! I need all the help
I can get so I can make a better decision when I purchase a machine!

what I am discovering about the imports is that one guy will get a good one and another will get a not so good one!
so I will have to watch the posts to see what everyone is saying" and then there is the southbend lathe to consider" I hear alot of good things about it!
I want to use the lathe as an addition to my home fab shop "(my Garage)" and I have been thinking about buying one for so long that
I just want to get it over with and start making chips" thank you again for your help!