Followup on ^%$^% B&S taper center

JST · Aug 27, 2004

Got a nice center from John Oder, Thank you very much, John.

Got my missing plates and a tailstock from Richard Triemstra for a very reasonable price (he is a dealer, ads in HSM, and I now highly recommend him, BTW).

So, what does sonny boy do with his stuff?

This, this evening:

It is a 28T 14P gear which has just had the final cut taken. Gear is to fix a crummy one on the Logan back gears.

Worked well. I got a little chatter and tooth marking until I got the cutter rpm set right. Ended up at about 70 rpm in back gear on the Lewis, and got that nice rrrr, rrrr, of a happy cutter buried in the work. No more marks.

No I didn't try Boston, and while I like to support Logan, for what is somewhat optional repairs, I decided not to pay almost $100 for the part.

Hey, I guess I am just one on'ry SOB, but I like me that way.

wanderer · Aug 27, 2004

Congrats!
That's a nice looking gear! I hope when I get a mill mine turn out as well!
wanderer

johnoder · Aug 27, 2004

Thanks Jerry! Glad to help. Have a drawer full of these type of gear cutters if anyone needs to borrow one or more.

John

jim rozen · Aug 27, 2004

Lovely machine - it's one of the few that have
the 'engine turning' present, the way the company
ads always show them when they're all gussied
up for show.

Jim

EPAIII · Aug 27, 2004

J. Tiers said, "... I decided not to pay almost $100 for the part."

There's a lot of that going around. We'd rather soend $300 and an evening or two to make it ourselves instead of $100 to buy. Store bought gears are lacking in the Pride spec.

Nice job!

Paul A.

timekiller · Aug 27, 2004

Good job J Tiers,
Looking at Boston, Martin, and Browning for a 14 DP gear would have been a waste of your and their time.

Been there and done that.

That pitch is obsolute today in off the shelf items. Some of my old lathes have that 14 DP and I have to repair or make the replacement gears.

Ray

BTW RUSH gear could have fixed you up. However in the at least 10 year old catalog their sample quotation for one 12 DP 20º pa 36 t Delrin gear (3" od x 1" face 7/8 hub width, 3/4" bore) is $598.00 two week delivery, :eek:

or $4742.00 same day delivery :eek:

Isn't it good to have the equipment and knowledge to make repairs.

JST · Aug 27, 2004

Thanks

There's a lot of that going around. We'd rather soend $300 and an evening or two to make it ourselves instead of $100 to buy. Store bought gears are lacking in the Pride spec.

Actually, This $100 gear cost me two and a half hours of an evening to make.

Tooling to make it, inclusive, was almost $200, including the DH, the plates and tailstock, and the cutter.

Of course, the cutter was the only thing bought specifically for this. The DH I ran across and bought when it was "under my nose". The plates etc I got to make it useful. Not shown, the good 3 jaw that was on the DH.

And I still have all the tooling!

Give a man a pole and hook.......

Oh, BTW, the Lewis was marketed as a kit in the 1940s.
I got a goodie, roller bearings and all the niceties were put in by its builder. If you saw the original version as the plans show, it would not be that nice.
The engine turned part is part of his pride of workmanship.

And, you should see a closeup of the ways. They were pinpoint scraped, recently enough that they are just beginning to wear. Scrape spots are about 1/8 square, more like a surface plate. All the slides are like silk.
When I went to look at it, I saw a few of those things, turned some cranks, looked it over, and didn't haggle a bit. I paid the asking and was happy to do so.

JST · Sep 6, 2004

Finally got around to tearing apart the lathe and putting in the gear.

Here is a pic of the resulting gear, in place on backgear shaft, with the old one next to it.

I don't know exactly what all the bright spots on the gear are, they don't show if you just look at it.

Mike W · Sep 6, 2004

Very nice job, and also good pictures.

Michael Az · Sep 6, 2004

Nice work Jerry but I think your crazy. There is only one tooth missing on the old gear. You should have worn it out!

Michael

JST · Sep 7, 2004

Heck, it clanked like the devil was in it in back gear, and I don't have brazing equipment.

I didn't want it to bite a piece out of my bull gear, that could run to a problem.

It still is noisy in back gear, but I don't feel bad pushing it more now. If I mess up this gear, I cut another slice of stock and pretty soon I have another one.

Besides....I had (or was getting anyway) everything but the cutter, and I still have all of it, AND a spare gear!

P.S.
But now I have discovered a "need" for a set of keyway broaches. Doing it the hard way with a file is a hassle.
It seems to be "magnet syndrome". Iron is attracted, but it doesn't leave.

John Stevenson · Sep 7, 2004

The bigest problem with these old lathe change gears are that they are the old 14.5 degree pressure angle.
Even if company's do the pitch you need they will be at the more modern 20 degree's.

Many will do these as specials but it's rare to find 14.5 listed as stock items.

Timekiller,
Are you sure about those prices.? They sound very hight to me for what is basically a stock gear

"12 DP 20º pa 36 t Delrin gear (3" od x 1" face 7/8 hub width, 3/4" bore) is $598.00 two week delivery, [Eek!] or $4742.00 same day delivery [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] "

Looking in HPC's stock book http://www.hpcgears.com
They list the same gear in Delrin 12DP, 20 PA, 36 T with hub £20.96 no hub £16.09
Both in stock for next day delivery.
Same gear in steel £28.54 and £21.40 respectively.

HPC also list 14 DP but only in 20 degrees PA

J Tiers,
Nice job, you must be proud.

John S.

johnoder · Sep 7, 2004

Jerrold:

Cutting keyways in the lathe works after a fashion as long as you don't mind cranking the carriage back and forth a zillion times. Beats a file hands down, though.

John

JST · Sep 7, 2004

Started off doing that, but found that filing was way easier and used tools in their intended way.

I sure didn't like using the lathe as a shaper...too much stress.

And both legitimate shapers are currently homeless and away from power...another thing that needs worked on....

The broach method sounds way easier.

doc · Sep 8, 2004

aw come on ! suffer like the rest of us & cut the keyways on a shaper ....u get better on the 2nd or 3rd one .....cut up w/ clapper locked ....both push & pull cuts seem to work ......doug king brought a keyway cutter down from canada two summers ago & cut a couple in the drill press ..a tube fitting in gear bore w/ offset spindle inside w/ pin driving a cutter sticking out the side of tube ..just chuck it , insert in bore & pull on the drill press handle & it cuts as it goes down..now THAT is easy ....pat. around 1920 or so

best wishes
docn8as

ps the first one i cut w/ shaper ( & i am still using the gear) , didnt look near as good as some hand filed keyways i have done .....like i said , it gets better !

johnoder · Sep 8, 2004

When I was making column gears for my 1919 Cinc. #4 verticle mill I cut a few DOVETAIL keyways in the shaper. Anyone ever see any of these? After you get to depth then you ease it side to side.

John

kenh · Sep 8, 2004

I had good luck starting keyway with an endmill,then filing to square it up.

JST · Sep 9, 2004

I started the job with the filing machine....but somehow the file got locked up in the keyway when the file shifted in the chuck...broke the file.

Decided that was probably expensive enough and moved on to the lathe as a shaper, but the material was tough stuff. I think the piece I cut it from may have been originally a large (2.5 inch)pin off a piece of earthmoving equipment. Shaping that way was not happening, even a couple thous was tough. Lots different from CI or die-cast pulleys.

So the file-by-hand method was used. Worked OK.

Odd, because it cut fine with the mill, and the lathe turned it OK. And it rusted, so not SS.

Well mystery metal is what it is. As you can see, I tried nearly every method before hand filing, except for chipping with a chisel!

I've used every bad method there is for a lot of stuff...I know lots of kludges. I now try to avoid them.

Followup on ^%$^% B&S taper center

Diamond

Aluminum

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Stainless

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Hot Rolled

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kenh

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