Gorton 9-J mill problem
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  1. #1
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    Default Gorton 9-J mill problem

    Hi guys, I recently joined this forum and can already tell that a lot of knowledgable people post on here.

    I recently purchased an old Gorton 9-J mill. The machine seems to be in good condition with only one problem -- a very stiff spindle. It is tight going up and down, but rotates easily/smoothly. I have to put my body weight into the spindle hand feed in order to move it. I printed the 9-J manual and tried removing the spindle assembly last night.


    Cut/paste from user manual:
    ...Secure two wood blocks or parallels of exactly the same height. Place one on each side of the extended spindle nose and under the spindle sleeve bushing which is under spring tension. Now, raise table until the two parallels are in contact with the lower edge of the spindle sleeve bushing.

    25d) Put match marks on bottom edge of spindle sleeve bushing and lower edge of spindle housing for locating during re-assembly. Remove the clamp ring adjusting screw and drive soft metal wedge in slot at rear of spindle housing thereby releasing the spindle sleeve bushing. The spindle sleeve bushing and retaining spring are now ready for removal by lowering the machine table slowly.

    I can't get the spindle sleeve bushing to drop out. When I put the wood blocks under it and raised the table, I seen it go up a little (~0.15") as I raised the table. I didn't put an 'excessive' bind on it.

    I can't get it to drop out...or even drop to where it originally was.

    Suggestions? Input? Advice?

    Have a good day!
    Michael

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    A picture is worth 1000 words. Is there any way that you can post one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Carlisi View Post
    A picture is worth 1000 words. Is there any way that you can post one?
    Yes, I will get a picture when I get home and post it on here.

    Have a good day!
    Michael

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    Michael is this it ?

    Spindle retraction adjustment collar

    This collar is mounted on spindle feed shaft at left of micrometer
    spindle feed box and consists of a coil spring fitting around shaft,
    connected to feed box housing and with an outer casting with a split hub
    clamped to feed shaft. By loosening the clamp screw and turning collar to
    left or right, the pressure required to lower the spindle by means of feed
    lever can be lightened or increased to exactly the desired amount. Before
    loosening, have spindle in extreme up position.

    This is taken from page 25, paragraph 19a, 19b goes on to talk about this adjustment
    on machines with spindle power feed.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
    Michael is this it ?

    Spindle retraction adjustment collar

    This collar is mounted on spindle feed shaft at left of micrometer
    spindle feed box and consists of a coil spring fitting around shaft,
    connected to feed box housing and with an outer casting with a split hub
    clamped to feed shaft. By loosening the clamp screw and turning collar to
    left or right, the pressure required to lower the spindle by means of feed
    lever can be lightened or increased to exactly the desired amount. Before
    loosening, have spindle in extreme up position.

    This is taken from page 25, paragraph 19a, 19b goes on to talk about this adjustment
    on machines with spindle power feed.
    No, the part I'm talking about is at the bottom of the spindle. Here is a picture from the technical manual.



    I'll get some actual pictures when I get home this evening. This part holds the entire spindle assembly in the housing. Once I get it out, I can disassemble it and see where it's binding.

    In an effort to fix it, I completely removed the 'pinion shaft' (lever you pull down to move the spindle down or push up to move the spindle up) out of the 'rack & pinion' setup. I don't see any problems with that. Furthermore, I inspected the 'rack' teeth when the 'pinion shaft' was removed. I don't see any damaged teeth on the rack. This leads me to believe that the problem is in the spindle assembly (inside the head).

    Have a good day!
    Michael

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    Default Gorton spindle

    If you get to YaHoo there is a gorton group. I got an O-16 and joined 'bout a year ago. There is a whole thread about sticking spindles and a guy that blogged the fix. Be sure when you join to accept the auto e-mail option, cause any additions are e-mailed to you when they are posted. That way you can pick up a lot of stuff with out having to search for it. BTW what collet did you end up with?

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    Gentle: I joined that group the same day I joined this group and have been searching both sites. As of right now, I've been unsuccessful finding the thread you mentioned. I'll keep looking. By chance, do you have a link.

    I'm not sure which collet I have. I think it's the Gorton style. I have a whole box (~10) of them and they're still sitting in the back seat of my truck.

    I took some pictures last night. Photobucket was down and I couldn't get them posted... here they are.



    The screwdriver is pointing at the part that I'm trying to remove. With a couple blocks of wood, I pushed that piece up a fraction of an inch. I've been unable to remove it.





    I've tried wedging a broken screwdriver in the back to help release that part. No help...



    As always, I'm open to any suggestions or input .

    Have a good day!
    Michael

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    Default YaHoo group

    Start @ post #1072 and work your way up. Sorry I was thinking that they were all grouped in a thread, like this forum. The posts are just numbered. So this guy has a sticking spindle. most o f the posts start with RE. and have same title. My bad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gentle View Post
    Start @ post #1072 and work your way up. Sorry I was thinking that they were all grouped in a thread, like this forum. The posts are just numbered. So this guy has a sticking spindle. most o f the posts start with RE. and have same title. My bad!
    Thanks for the hint. I went through and read all of those posts.

    I finally got the quill removed from the head. I ended up getting it out of there with by putting my purse down .

    After studying the sketches a bit more, I came up with a plan ---> I put the quill down as far as possible. Then, continued 'forcing' it down by stacking additional 'spacers' until everything dropped out (see pictures). I had to force it out almost the entire way.











    Surprisingly, I found very little junk in there. I cleaned everything up, started trying trial fitting the components, and found the following:

    Bushing to quill:
    The bushing smoothly slides onto the quill for a couple inches (~6") before it stops. I measured the quill and found that it tapers out at the point where the bushing stops sliding.

    Quill to head:
    The quill slides into the head for a couple inches (4.5") before stopping. At this point, I can't move it up any further with my hands. I went over all the openings in the head with a file and made sure everything was deburred. I believe the problem is in the head because the quill has a constant OD at this part.

    Solutions?
    Unless I'm advised otherwise, I will use a dingle-ball hone to clean up the ID of the head. I will probably try to chuck the quill up in a lathe and put some emery cloth on it.

    Do these solutions sound plausible? Do you have a better alternative?

    Have a good day!
    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96Mustang460cid View Post
    Unless I'm advised otherwise, I will use a dingle-ball hone to clean up the ID of the head. I will probably try to chuck the quill up in a lathe and put some emery cloth on it.

    Do these solutions sound plausible? Do you have a better alternative?

    Have a good day!
    Michael
    Absolutely not !!
    You have done well, so far , moving cautiosly.
    NOW, don't blow it ...... "emery" etc.
    You're suddenly moving too fast.
    More understanding of the way it is supposed to work is needed.
    Take another week if you have to.
    Nothing should need to be forced.....
    Measurements..... & understanding will reveal "eventually".

    A little more patience & fact-finding is in order.

    m1m

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    Default Granite surface plate

    if you could set spindle up on a good surface plate and see if it is bent with a .0001 indicator - that would be where i"d start, otherwise it's you gotta "run what you brung". I just don't believe that Grey Iron shrinks. Almost has to be "wrecked" and bent, to be sticking. Usually housings are wallowed out with time and vibration and your stuck with trying to sleeve it some how. Well it's not like you are dealing with a cnc building jet airplane parts, so just go slow and easy with the abrasives. I'm always surprised at how this kind of fit can go from tight to sloppy in just a short period of time. clean, clean, clean between trial fittings cause that damn sand gets into everything

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    Default spindle = quill sorry, my bad

    Just how many of those 12" crecents you own?

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    Default Good advice / evaluation.

    Quote Originally Posted by gentle View Post
    if you could set spindle up on a good surface plate and see if it is bent with a .0001 indicator - that would be where i"d start, otherwise it's you gotta "run what you brung". I just don't believe that Grey Iron shrinks. Almost has to be "wrecked" and bent, to be sticking. Usually housings are wallowed out with time and vibration and your stuck with trying to sleeve it some how. Well it's not like you are dealing with a cnc building jet airplane parts, so just go slow and easy with the abrasives. I'm always surprised at how this kind of fit can go from tight to sloppy in just a short period of time. clean, clean, clean between trial fittings cause that damn sand gets into everything
    BUT:
    Hold off on any honing / abrading....
    a few more times thru it......might pay off.
    Patience

    m1m

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    Quote Originally Posted by gentle View Post
    Just how many of those 12" crecents you own?
    Lol, I was actually laughing at that whole process . I was pulling all sorts of tools out of my tool box to get the quill all the way out of there. I had so many different tools stacked in there that I had to use my chin, chest, and both hands to hold it all in there.... My wife just happened to peak into the garage during one of these times and just busted up laughing. She didn't offer to help though .

    Guys, I'm going to spend some more time with it today and see what I come up with. I don't 'have' to get this thing running right away and I certainly don't want to screw it up. I'll take a couple deep breaths and approach it with a clear head again.

    Thanks a bunch for all the help!
    Michael

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by 96Mustang460cid View Post
    Lol,My wife just happened to peak into the garage during one of these times and just busted up laughing. She didn't offer to help though .
    Michael
    Sounds like my Woman........ Sisters maybe ?

    m1m

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    Smile Gorton 9-j mill problem

    I removed the spindle from my 8 1/2 Gorton with no trouble , but I removed the spindle pulley and pulley guard first. I would remove them and clean all the parts and try to reassemble before removing any metal or making the spindle hole larger. Putting the top parts on last after the spindle is in. Good Luck Bill

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    It's been quite a while since I started this thread and I thought I would update it.

    I tried using an electric die grinder to deburr everything in the bore within reach...without any luck. I finally figured out how to remove the pulleys and top bearings. About 20 seconds with a three stone hone and...viola! After reassembly, everything worked very smoothly .

    I still don't know exactly what the problem was, but the hone took care of it.

    Now, I just need to move across the state, build a shop, and buy a phase converter...then I'll be set to get it runnin'.

    Thanks for all the help!
    Michael

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    Thumbs up Good News !

    Quote Originally Posted by 96Mustang460cid View Post
    I still don't know exactly what the problem was, but the hone took care of it.

    Thanks for all the help!
    Michael

    Happy to hear of your acheivement.

    m1m

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    For future reference (sorry I didn't see this thread originally), you're supposed to remove the pinch bolt from the housing and install it backwards. Put a steel spacer in the slot and screw the pinch bolt in to ever so slightly spread the housing. The spindle assembly will pop out and land on the wooden blocks.


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