New lubes might be better than old ...
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  1. #1
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    So how many of you are using a "modern" lube in your lathe or mill when you know that the good old original is "best"? What lube and why? Any magic bullet for gearhead lathe noise?

    I'm using the "pure" old dinosaur stuff that the manufacturer calls out but can't help but wonder if gear noise could be reduced substantially with a "modified" product (moly maybe??)

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    I worked at Cincinnati Milacron for a lot of years. My lathe was made by them when I was four years old. They wrote the book on industrial lubricants. My lathe is in a whole lot better shape than I am. There is an extreme possibility that modern oils are better than old oils but I just do not care.

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    "My lathe is in a whole lot better shape than I am"

    A good point, I hadn't looked at it that way. Maybe I need the moly

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    I believe that modern oils are a lot better than the older ones and I believe that modern oils, Amsoil synthetic air compressor oil in my case, allowed me to overdrive a 5 hp Gardner Denver compressor designed and rated for 550 rpm with 5 hp motor, to 7.5 hp @ 850 rpm. That patched up old compresser has been running it's ass off for about 10 years in overdrive.
    And I have no doubt that today's oil has had a big share in the success.
    Now for a question, often I encounter an older machine which may specify a certain oil for a specific application. And often it's just specified by brand and trade name and you may have an equivilent oil in another brand on the shelf and not even know it.
    So, is there a site where you can compare and find equivalents?

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    There's stuff better than bear bgrease? Who'd a thunk?

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    Try this site, which has a lot of information on lubricants.

    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

    and

    http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/t...ersion+Factors

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    As far as lubricants go I've tried to follow the advice given on the board on most cases. For the SB - spindle oil, vactra way oil, DTE20 elsewhere the Tree mill gets avariety of stuff cross reffed from the table also but for my old C.J. lathe I switched to 0w synthetic. Using spindle oil the bearings would run warm to hot and eventually start to seize up. I took it apart looked good, plastigauge says .003 frt + rear,left over night all runs out and is hard to spin by hand the next day! Put 0w syn in bearings , side gears, apron,everywhere it purrs! Go figure! Let it sit a week and the spindle spins very freely by hand, does not feel dry at all. The older and non synthetic seem to dry out after a while and the synthetic seems to stay!

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    I had been over on bobistheoilguy.com when it was suggested here with no luck except viscosity chart. The 2nd link provided some info, but what I need is when the machine specifies "Mobil Compound 'FF'" on the nameplate and you have no idea what it is. Mobil oil site returned no info on "FF" when I tried to get specs. Seemed to work just fine on DTE and Vactra oils as far as giving application, viscosity, and such. But not on "FF".

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    I seem to recall that jriowa is an expert on lubricants and x-references, as he used to work in the industry. Hopefully he will stop by this thread.

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    Geez, I have to go home sometime. Yesterday was my aniversary so the wife and I had beer and pizza.

    I am a firm believer in using what was reccomended by the builder or a current cross. If it was really old, usually the lubes were all mineral oil based. By changing to modern hydraulic oils, you've made a big improvement right there. I don't use motor oils. They aren't always compatable with the brass or bronze bearings that you'll find in machine tools.

    I don't have a problem with synthetics, if you use an oil that crosses from the original. I use synthetic compressor oil. You have to be very careful about the conversions. Many of the synthetics are dibasic acid esters or polyglycols. In fact, some of the synthetic hydraulic oils sold are water based glycols or polyglycols. IMHO, polyalphaolifins make much better gear and bearing lubes.

    Now, Dirty Old, Mobil compound FF was not available for sale in the US. This stuff was used in gear boxes on a lot of Taiwanese machines (am I close). For a cross, you should be looking at Mobilgear 627.
    JR

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    THX, JRIOWA, for the info. The "FF" is specified on the nameplate of a big old Kalamazoo horizontal bandsaw I bought a couple weeks ago.
    I'll check out Mobil 627 for viscosity, etc. I believe I saw 627 in the lube section of my MSC catalog.
    Also had some thoughts of using Amsoil's new manual trans lube in it. Specially formulated to not erode yellow metal parts. As I'm sure you know, many of today's automotive EP gear lubes will erode away brass and bronze parts, also copper.
    As I asked, is there anywhere on the net to find this info in one place?

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    seems...recently someone mentioned that
    mobil'd "improved" vactra oils to the point
    that they weren't as good as they used to be?
    when did this happen?

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    Not sure as to when, but I have read that Mobil removed the "tackifier" from Vactra oils. There's said to be a new oil out called "Vacuolene (sp?)" with the tackifier.
    For way lube, I'm using a product from Amsoil. But since I bought that 5 gallon can, they have discontinued it, will have to check around myself if and when I use up that 5 gallons!

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    DOM, If there's a place on the net that has everything that I have in a couple of 3-ring binders and 3 books, I don't know about it. A lot of the stuff that I have is about 30 years of accumulated data (junk if you ask SWMBO). Some of it comes from just having to deal with it. I also work for a company that has 38 facilities world wide. If I really need something, I can find it.

    Vactra...IIRC, Mobil changed the tacifier because of problems with synthetic and semi-synthetic coolants. This POd the printing press people and Mobil made Vaculene to satisfy them. Now, you can change to Vaculene, but if you're using something other that oil based coolant, check it before buying a bunch. BTW, Amsoil's #2 way lube is called "WLJ".
    JR

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    Now for a question, often I encounter an older machine which may specify a certain oil for a specific application. And often it's just specified by brand and trade name and you may have an equivilent oil in another brand on the shelf and not even know it.
    So, is there a site where you can compare and find equivalents?
    Sure is Call this number "Technical Information 1-800-662-4525" This is for Exxon Mobil, when I had trouble finding oils I think they were like "shell Tallus" I just called them up and gave them whatever info I had and they told me all the oils I needed. Granted they'll only tell you about Mobil's oils, however their prices are pretty reasonable and they have the reputation of being the best in the feild. I heard stuff like I believe it was Cincinatti Machine tools (I'm sure Traytopjohnny can correct me if I'm wrong) that if they found you didn't use say "mobil vactra 2" on their ways and they specified it that your warante was null and void if the problem happened any where on surfaces were lubricated with an oil other then the Mobil oil they reccomended.

    Adam

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    Adam,
    Your logic is flawed. The Mobil hot line is an excellent resource, but Mobil is going to cross to a product that comes closest to what they offer. This may or maynot be what the engineer had in mind when he originally speced the lube. Sometimes, the lube is only available from one manufacturer. Other times, it is no longer made. The best thing to do is contact the machine tool builder and ask what their current reccomendation is.

    DOM, I had some time to do some more research on the "Compound FF". Although I think the 627 would work, I am leaning more to 629 or 630 now. This is mostly because the compound FF has a AGMA rating of 4-5EP. Mobilgear 629 is AGMA 4EP and 630 is 5EP. If you're in an unheated building, or only occasional use, go with 629. If the saw is going to run continuous at over 100 deg, go with 630.
    JR

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    Thx, JR for all the info. 629 sounds like a good, middle of the road choice. Because yes, my shop is unheated unless it's going below 20*F, and then only enough to prevent pipe freezing.If it's too cold wearing thermal underwear, hell, I go home!
    And in the Summer, I got AC. So I believe thinner would be better.
    Do you have any comment, good or bad, about my thoughts of trying Amsoil manual trans synthetic? IIRC, it comes in an 80W-90.

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    JR, do you happen to know what the "problem" was with Vactra's tackifier and synthetic coolants? I'm curious as in our shop we use, and have used, Vactra 2 and 4 for quite some years, along with synthetic coolant.

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    DOM, Mobilgear 629 is heavier than 80-90 gear lube! I also don't know what Amsoil does with red metal parts.

    WYZ..
    That's what I remember, but I'm getting old. We had trouble with waylube when we switched to Chemtool 114CJ about 15 years ago. The coolant turn both Vactra and Waytac to glue. We ended up taking several Cinci #2 centerless grinders apart to free up the dressers. We switched to Chemtools way lube and the problem went away. The Mobil rep came to us later and said "the problem was solved" but we had already switched.
    JR

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    JR,
    I sent you a PM.
    Thanks,
    Tom


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