Mebfab
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2003
- Location
- Mebane North Carolina USA
Just brought home a 48" T lathe. Anyone used these and also used a vtl? How do they compare on similar sized parts. Most of the work would be 24-30" diameter and about 6" thick
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web
Stay Connected:
Opinion T lathe vs VTL
- Thread starter Mebfab
- Start date
- Replies 20
- Views 8,647
Dave A
Titanium
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Location
- Roseville, CA
I think either JimK, or Jim Rozen commented on what a T-lathe was intended to be used for about five months ago. Think the thread was in the antique forum, but don't remember the topic.
edit - see this thread:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/11/1924.html#000003
edit - see this thread:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/11/1924.html#000003
JimK
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2003
- Location
- Berkeley Springs, WV, USA
Metfab:
The 'T' lathe is meant for disk work. A fixture on the face plate is the "main armament' of this machine. I am going on the assumption that your machine is all-manual; many of them were tracer equipped.
Big as the thing is, it is made for fine cuts on light work. no real hogging.
If you want to do boring or counter boring you have to get the center hole in the work before you set it up in the machine.
Think in terms of flat work and facing cuts. The machine has a very limited turning length. The 'T' lathe is the master of thin ring work.
When you look at the face plate think of it as the place to put an aluminum fixture plate. Bolting dirctly to the face plate is a super PITA and an invitation to put grooves in it from tool over run.
Don't be shy about cutting the fixture plate for a job and be generous with the bolts that hold large diameter disks and rings.
Work near the maximum OD may have as many as 24 hold down bolts around the outside of a ring and another 24 on the inside. Plan your set up in advance, you will have to move your clamps so provide all the holes you need.
I would stay away form work more than 6 inches thick on this lathe. The 6 inch limit is for aluminum, thick steel is difficult to handle on this lathe in large diameters.
No, it isn't a VTL nor is it one of the large swing short center lathes that I discussed in the article linked to above. The machine is quite highly specialized so a somewhat 'philosophical' approach is necessary in order to gain full advantage of the machine.
[ 06-20-2006, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: JimK ]
The 'T' lathe is meant for disk work. A fixture on the face plate is the "main armament' of this machine. I am going on the assumption that your machine is all-manual; many of them were tracer equipped.
Big as the thing is, it is made for fine cuts on light work. no real hogging.
If you want to do boring or counter boring you have to get the center hole in the work before you set it up in the machine.
Think in terms of flat work and facing cuts. The machine has a very limited turning length. The 'T' lathe is the master of thin ring work.
When you look at the face plate think of it as the place to put an aluminum fixture plate. Bolting dirctly to the face plate is a super PITA and an invitation to put grooves in it from tool over run.
Don't be shy about cutting the fixture plate for a job and be generous with the bolts that hold large diameter disks and rings.
Work near the maximum OD may have as many as 24 hold down bolts around the outside of a ring and another 24 on the inside. Plan your set up in advance, you will have to move your clamps so provide all the holes you need.
I would stay away form work more than 6 inches thick on this lathe. The 6 inch limit is for aluminum, thick steel is difficult to handle on this lathe in large diameters.
No, it isn't a VTL nor is it one of the large swing short center lathes that I discussed in the article linked to above. The machine is quite highly specialized so a somewhat 'philosophical' approach is necessary in order to gain full advantage of the machine.
[ 06-20-2006, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: JimK ]
dirty old man
Stainless
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2005
- Location
- Griffin, GA
In my 24 years at Republic/Northwest Airlines in their Atlanta maintenance base I spent a good number of years on a Summit 60" vert. lathe, a Pensotti 72" vert lathe and also some time on a 60" T lathe, forget the name brand.
I will echo JimK on his comment that the T-lathe is intended for light cuts on large dia. short pieces such as stators and discs. I don't really know how it would handle heavy cuts as we never used it for anything other than light cuts on parts built up with weld or plasma spray or nickel plating.
Now the 2 vert lathes would hog metal with the best of them when you were building a fixture or something else that required moving lots of metal.
Dave
I will echo JimK on his comment that the T-lathe is intended for light cuts on large dia. short pieces such as stators and discs. I don't really know how it would handle heavy cuts as we never used it for anything other than light cuts on parts built up with weld or plasma spray or nickel plating.
Now the 2 vert lathes would hog metal with the best of them when you were building a fixture or something else that required moving lots of metal.
Dave
jlegge
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2004
- Location
- Grayslake, IL
Monarch built two models of T-lathes for about a dozen years or so, all intended for aircraft type parts. They both had tracers on them and one featured constent surface speed control which was pretty impressive for 1950's machine. Have no idea how many they built, but from what I read it had to been several hundred.
John
John
JRIowa
Diamond
- Joined
- May 27, 2003
- Location
- Marshalltown, Iowa, USA
I'll just echo what Jim, Dave and John said. When I was out at Rocky Flats years ago, we had a bunch of NC and CNC Ex-Cell-O T-lathes. All were finishers, no more than 0.015" cuts. IIRC, all were using vacumn chucks.
Here, we run VBMs, 8 of them. The smallest is a 36" Bullard and the largest a 108" Gray. If you do short work (height is less than dia) a Bullard is a good machine. If you do tall work like we do with the heigth is greater than the dia., you need a Gray or King.
We just did a run-off on a rebuilt 60" Gray with 84" under the rails. New Fanuc controls, 18 station tool changer, HSK-100 tooling, AC drives, Renishaw tool probe, etc. should be setting on the floor next month.
JR
Here, we run VBMs, 8 of them. The smallest is a 36" Bullard and the largest a 108" Gray. If you do short work (height is less than dia) a Bullard is a good machine. If you do tall work like we do with the heigth is greater than the dia., you need a Gray or King.
We just did a run-off on a rebuilt 60" Gray with 84" under the rails. New Fanuc controls, 18 station tool changer, HSK-100 tooling, AC drives, Renishaw tool probe, etc. should be setting on the floor next month.
JR
Mebfab
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2003
- Location
- Mebane North Carolina USA
Yes it was from Harris. The stuff was outside because it was a working shop and this was all the surplus. They did not want anyone inside. Most stuff was really rough. They pulled a few lots before the sale.
Few jewels. I bought a hotsy hot water pressure washer for $65. It was painful though. Bidding started at $20. No one wanted it but me. The auctioneer walked the crowd begging for any bid increase, any at all. Finnaly found an old timer he new by name. Bid would increase a few dollars at a time.
Also bought a Unisaw and some hydraulic hose making equipment for resale.
Bridgeport series 2 special and Index 747 under a grand each but looked really rough
Most of the lots were leaking hydraulic cylinders and broken motors.
Few jewels. I bought a hotsy hot water pressure washer for $65. It was painful though. Bidding started at $20. No one wanted it but me. The auctioneer walked the crowd begging for any bid increase, any at all. Finnaly found an old timer he new by name. Bid would increase a few dollars at a time.
Also bought a Unisaw and some hydraulic hose making equipment for resale.
Bridgeport series 2 special and Index 747 under a grand each but looked really rough
Most of the lots were leaking hydraulic cylinders and broken motors.
Mebfab
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2003
- Location
- Mebane North Carolina USA
Forgot to mention it is a Lansing T lathe
Richard Rogers
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Location
- Bentley, Louisiana
Don,
If it were me, I'd have waited for a cleaner that goes 320 degrees like a Sioux or ADF or something. We have one that is from ADF, and at 250 degrees, it's not even half of what 320 degrees does for effective cleaning. Still, you'll like the 250 degrees much more than cold water.
Richard
If it were me, I'd have waited for a cleaner that goes 320 degrees like a Sioux or ADF or something. We have one that is from ADF, and at 250 degrees, it's not even half of what 320 degrees does for effective cleaning. Still, you'll like the 250 degrees much more than cold water.
Richard
Forrest Addy
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2000
- Location
- Bremerton WA USA
The difference between a T lathe and a VYL is like night and day.
In a VTL you can lay the part on the faceplate or chuch then set up at your liesure. Gravity is working for you. You have roughly the same working height as the chuck diameter until you get into sizes larget than 6 feet. You have lots of power and rigidity and you can move the tail up and down. In larger machines you can have more than one head cutting on the same part. A VTL or vertical boring mill is very versatle and may be applied to any work within its envelope from heavy roughing to close tolerence finishing.
A T lathe forces you to suspend the work until you get hold of it in jaws or clamps or a fixture. It's mechanically limited in workpiece length. It's not really designed for stock removal. If I was doing repair or second op work on turbine engines, rings, or round flat parts in quantity a T lathe would be a good choice.
In a VTL you can lay the part on the faceplate or chuch then set up at your liesure. Gravity is working for you. You have roughly the same working height as the chuck diameter until you get into sizes larget than 6 feet. You have lots of power and rigidity and you can move the tail up and down. In larger machines you can have more than one head cutting on the same part. A VTL or vertical boring mill is very versatle and may be applied to any work within its envelope from heavy roughing to close tolerence finishing.
A T lathe forces you to suspend the work until you get hold of it in jaws or clamps or a fixture. It's mechanically limited in workpiece length. It's not really designed for stock removal. If I was doing repair or second op work on turbine engines, rings, or round flat parts in quantity a T lathe would be a good choice.
Richard Rogers
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Location
- Bentley, Louisiana
Sorry, Don. Must have been too foggy to see your Bat Signal and rush to the computer to tell you! In reality, you did NOT mess up or anything. You'll be happy with your machine, I'm sure. Interestingly, the ones that go very hot don't run much pressure. Maybe 500 lbs or less. The reason is that it's no longer propelling water to make the cleaning action, but the effect of the 320 degree steam hitting atmosphere and immediatly going to 212 or so releases much energy to do the cleaning. It also is less "intrusive" and doesn't shoot water into no-no places so badly as high pressure water would.
I think the Sioux steam cleaner website has an icon that says "Why Steam?" or something like that which goes into better detail describing what I'm saying here.
Our cleaner is ex military. It's giving a bit of trouble lately, if that makes you feel any better. It cost Big Brother lots of $$$ new though.
Gotta go climb under that Ford now.
Richard
I think the Sioux steam cleaner website has an icon that says "Why Steam?" or something like that which goes into better detail describing what I'm saying here.
Our cleaner is ex military. It's giving a bit of trouble lately, if that makes you feel any better. It cost Big Brother lots of $$$ new though.
Gotta go climb under that Ford now.
Richard
surplusjohn
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2002
- Location
- Syracuse, NY USA
I don't think there are many uses of a T lathe that a VTL couldn't do better. I wonder if they weren't cheaper to purchase since they are a lighter machine, also less ceiling height needed.
Mebfab
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2003
- Location
- Mebane North Carolina USA
"ceiling height" Constant problem for me. It limits the size of a planer I can purchase.
THis is actually the lightest T lathe I have run across. Only about 3 tons. Definitly a finish machine.
THis is actually the lightest T lathe I have run across. Only about 3 tons. Definitly a finish machine.
toolmkr
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2004
- Location
- Burlington, NC, USA
Dan, some solutions:
Just cut a hole in the upstairs floor- then tilt machine, rock it up as it goes into that 6' door.
cut a hole in the roof, use crane.
Pay one of those wrecker guys out back to drive thru the back of the building and let ins company build you a proper dock.
Just cut a hole in the upstairs floor- then tilt machine, rock it up as it goes into that 6' door.
cut a hole in the roof, use crane.
Pay one of those wrecker guys out back to drive thru the back of the building and let ins company build you a proper dock.
JimK
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2003
- Location
- Berkeley Springs, WV, USA
surplusjohn:
It is obvoius that you have never run a 'T' lathe.
I don't mean to be hard here but there is a very big difference.
The 'T' lathe has a fine feel to its controls. The work is easy to get close to and your position is good in relation to all the machinery.
It is an instrument maker's lathe writ large.
The VTL is capable of doing every bit as fine work as the 'T' lathe but because it is also a rough and ready machine tool, there are some drawbacks to operating one for fine finishing cuts.
The controls are stiff and the operator's position doesn't allow you to really get close to the work. Working with either the side head or the turret head isn't anywhere near as delicate as working with the carriage of the 'T' lathe.
OK, think of having to do a ring about 30" in OD with a narrow [ profile.
You WANT a 'T' lathe for that!
If you want to get serious about turbine disks with their complex face profiles, you want the 'T' lathe with it's tracer. I would venture to say that the machine in the hands of a good operator would still be competative with the nice new CNC VTL's.
Of course no one would install a tracer 'T' lathe if they had the moolah for the CNC VTL. those verisons of the VTL are just too good to pass up.
I usually love the old manual machines, but haveing busted may butt on the big Bullards, I would just as soon leave the driving to Mr. Fanuc from here on out.
As I said in my first post, fixturing is the trick on the 'T' lathe, operating one is quite nice.
It is obvoius that you have never run a 'T' lathe.
I don't mean to be hard here but there is a very big difference.
The 'T' lathe has a fine feel to its controls. The work is easy to get close to and your position is good in relation to all the machinery.
It is an instrument maker's lathe writ large.
The VTL is capable of doing every bit as fine work as the 'T' lathe but because it is also a rough and ready machine tool, there are some drawbacks to operating one for fine finishing cuts.
The controls are stiff and the operator's position doesn't allow you to really get close to the work. Working with either the side head or the turret head isn't anywhere near as delicate as working with the carriage of the 'T' lathe.
OK, think of having to do a ring about 30" in OD with a narrow [ profile.
You WANT a 'T' lathe for that!
If you want to get serious about turbine disks with their complex face profiles, you want the 'T' lathe with it's tracer. I would venture to say that the machine in the hands of a good operator would still be competative with the nice new CNC VTL's.
Of course no one would install a tracer 'T' lathe if they had the moolah for the CNC VTL. those verisons of the VTL are just too good to pass up.
I usually love the old manual machines, but haveing busted may butt on the big Bullards, I would just as soon leave the driving to Mr. Fanuc from here on out.
As I said in my first post, fixturing is the trick on the 'T' lathe, operating one is quite nice.
WhiteT
Plastic
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2006
- Location
- Broken Arrow, OK
Am interested in purchase of 48" t-lathe or close to it. Anybody got a lead?
