slightly O/T-college degree & running one's own shop

The thread on a book about managing a small shop prompted me to ask this question. My dream is to run my own shop. Alot of you guys already do and I was wondering if you thought a business degree was worth the effort and time or can the accounting, business law, etc. be picked up as you go?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

TIA, Jon Bohlander

Do you want to run a machine shop??

Then be as good as a machinist as you can be, there is enough of a challenge in the trade to tax any intellect.

Bookkeeping, accounting, sales and overall business practices can be learned well enough without a college degree in those subjects.

And what is the first thing one should learn about those subjects?

They are trades and professions in themselves, it is your job to run the machine shop and then it is your responsbility to hire those who are educated in the business aspects.

Bookkeepers and accountants will work job by job, a small shop doesn't need then on it's pay roll.

If your shop makes a product then get a sales agent who will take the marketing load off your shoulders.

Workman, tend thy lathe. No shop was ever built up by their accounting department.

Shop keeper, watch thy hirelings. Many shops have been put under by their accounting departments.

Think of your shop as a band. How rediculous it would be to think that you could toot the horn and beat the drum at the same time.

Jon,
While you are still employed by another(when you are self employed you may not have the time), take some key classes at night on business and accounting. Anything you think would help you. A degree I don't think would be needed, but learning some basics in entreprenuership can't hurt it may save you some cash down the road.Look at it as putting some new tools in the tool box.

A couple of things that will help you run a small business,

Learn how to read a profit and loss account and take a basic bookeeping course. I agree with JimK that you shoudn't keep your own books, however I think that you should understand them.

Steve.

The best advice I can think of for a small business is keep overhead as low as you can.... makes it a lot easier to survive the slow times or bad quotes..... and more important than a degree... COMMON SENSE.

Just a thought. Taking a class in sales from someone who really knows the ropes might be an even better way to augment your machining skills. You can probably hire a good part time book keeper. There are also a variety of small business support agencies that can help on the business side.

I remember a post a while back where someone noted that the guys who have trouble working for bosses are the same guys who have trouble jumping through the hoops it takes to get a degree, and these guys seem to be the ones that have their own shops. The ones that are successful have this trait and lots of gumption. Obviously there are a lot of shop owners that have a degree too.

You would probably learn a lot of things along the way to getting a degree that help you run a business. Do you need a degree to have your own shop? Definitely not.

If you have the desire to go to college, have the experience and learn a lot, it can be worthwhile. If your only reason to go is so you can learn enough to run a business, it won't be enough inspiration to carry through finishing a degree, plus a bunch of extra expense.

For most folks the reasons to go thru four years of college are not, in the end, job related. It's been my experience that most college grads don't actually end up working in the field they majored in ! I majored in biology, for instance, and never worked a biology related job in my life ! (I tried to at first, but came to realise that a biology degree without Masters or Doctorate is an entrance ticket to some pretty boring and low paying jobs)

But the liberal arts, and just the whole "mind broadening" experience is well worth it to many. For some folks it probably isn't necessary at all, but for many, myself included, even though it never helped directly in career terms, I'm glad I did it, as it has helped indirectly in many ways over the decades.

Jon,

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and am retired from a very successful product design career. My degree served to open doors to the jobs I had, and added polish to my ability to do research. However, I have long maintained that the knowledge I gained in the fun things of building cars, machine shop experience, and general curiosity about mechanical devices were far more usefull in my design success than the things I learned in college. Be ethical, be understanding and patient with customers, and be the best machinist you can be.

Jim

Here are a few ramblings from a "lifer." Aside from very short, beginner jobs before I "grew up," my only real work experience is my self taught self employment.

Yep, cash flow is what it's all about, and the sooner you accept a bit (however much you can afford) of accounting help, the sooner you'll get that under control.

When my partner and I started our business 35 years ago, we figured we'd have it handled by our skills in the trade alone. Naive thinking, that, and it wasn't too long before we realized that some accounting and business courses would have been a REAL benefit.

Now, after all that time, we've weathered some SERIOUS ups and downs, including a couple of years of negative (really!) income. We simply wouldn't have survived the mid 1980s if we'd carried ANY debt at all. Many of our "competitors" along with lots of factories and suppliers were flushed right out of the system during that time. When the industry recovered, we did too, and were there to pick up the pieces with a serious jump on new competition.

And, sure enough, we turned into our fathers, who'd spend hours talking about the Great Depression and what it took to survive. Our depression centered around 1984, when 85% of the acoustic guitar market literally disappeared thanks to MTV, disco, the "demographic bulge" changing its activities, and a general national recession. We talk about those times a lot, and make dang sure we're not leveraged at all, because survival of our business is the most important thing in our lives (except family.)

Working for yourself means that your boss is an asshole and the crew is incompetent! So, you'll spend far more hours working. But, the upside is that if you're lucky enough to have a dream, you won't have to "get away" on vaction just to decompress! In fact, in those 35 years, I've taken exactly two vacations of two weeks' duration each. My partner, Richard, has never been gone that long. What better place to be than our very own shop, where we have created a place to live and be a part of the community!

Days off, for me, are spent working on developing tools and techniques for my trade (Metalworking Content) and on my Web site. I moderate three discussion forums, write and photograph articles for four magazines and the occasional book, serve on the board of directors for our national professional association, and do some consulting for on the of the suppliers to our trade. On top of that, I'm a guest instructor at the oldest school of lutherie, and I attend the national conventions and symposia, where I present working demonstrations or lectures.

If you'd like to be well known, the Web can do it for you, but it takes some effort. In the 6-1/2 years of my Web site's existence, I've become the second (maybe first by now, but who's counting?) best known guitar repairer in the world. If you type "Frets" or "Frank Ford" into Google, I usually come up right at the head of the list.

I still don't know if it does me all that much good to be so visible, but, hey, it can't hoit! And, it does give me a chance to do some good for the community that has supported me for all these years.

Is every day "Happy, Happy - Joy, Joy?" Of course not. But in the balance, it's great to be one who wouldn't trade his job for any other!

Cheers,

Frank Ford
www.frets.com
Gryphon Stringed Instruments

I have a college degree in Public Administration same as business administration but geared towards local goverment people. I went to school so i could move up in the county sector. I paid for all of my major expences doing side work. the side work got out of control and i was infear of working on a piece of equipment and being sued. i also was having more fun with the side work and the people. I decided that i wanted to depend more on the side work. i started a business did the incorporation and got insurance. it was difficult i had more bills to pay and like many 9/11 hurt i do not now why. after some years i got an accountant an bid on some contracts and have never been sued i have done just as good as i did with the county. it took time for me to realize it is better to farm out some things. starting the corperation i did not need a lawyer. I sure need that accountant and he is worth his weight. i give him a box of bills ,reciepts and ious and he puts it in readable form. hard to find a skilled repair person so i do most of the outside repair. i have guys in the shop and i check the finish product. college helped to make me aware of business it also made me aware that all the college in the world will not prepare you for a business. it takes desire, stamina, positive thinking, and willing to live in your means. One of the biggest accounts i have is a wheel builder he started his busness when he was 17. that guy could not spell one number on a check he wrote me, and copied my business name of the bill, and said i only finished 6th grade, i know how to spell wheel. Go to college if you have the time it helps to find a job if you need one.

Jon,

Anything to boost your business acumen would be helpful, but, I guess I'm like my father said. He told me he'd now be about 500 years old if he'd gone to school for all the things he'd have to know to be in business. He went to college, I did not. Everyone was surprised when I did not. My advice would be to read business books from the likes of Robert Ringer, and also psychology books that pertain particularly to survival.

There is also a book about preparing to serve time in prison, and I've forgotten the name of it. Not being sarcastic or silly, I just feel the book is relative to preparedness in a potentially hostile world. If I could think of the name, I'd also recommend it.

I've been screwed, lied to, stepped on, cheated, stood up, laughed at, kicked, abandoned, ignored, looked down upon, stolen from, and some other stuff I've probably suppressed. The arena has made me able to appreciate so many things in life, and what it took to get them. Remaining positive without kidding myself is what I try to keep doing. Still, a nagging woman is unbearable to me. Remember that one, if you're married and hit a bubble in your business cycle.

There has been a lot to be positive about, and I've never worked for anyone else, and on my paternal side, no direct ancestor has worked for anyone else since the American Revolution (and maybe before.) I think it's been in my blood or something. Be ready for anything, and do not be discouraged. Your mindset is the only thing that will keep you functioning. All the best to you, seriously.

Richard

I am not a machinist, just a hobbyist. I'll say that first. I will agree with someone earlier who suggested some night classes. I would add that you should pick up as much tax knowledge as you can stand - there's a lot of "tricks" (<- not the best word, sorry) that can ease some of the financial woes of the early, high-risk part of running a business. Local organizations, depending on where you are, can help you with contacts and contracts that are specifically geared to small business, for example, or the peculiarities of your state tax codes, writeoffs, things like that. Far and away the bulk of your time and effort needs to be on machining, but some basic business skills may keep you out of a) trouble or b) bankruptcy!

Scott

I am a hobbyist in machining and a programmer by profession. However, I took a wide range of classes in getting my BA in CS. I agree with JimK that I never denigrate the expertise and value of an attorney or an accountant when I need one.

In my 2 accounting classes and my one business law course I mostly learned that the rules and laws governing both are NOT common sense. Mostly I learned that I needed a lawyer and an accountant!

On the other hand I now feel that I have some basis for understanding something I get from my accountant or in talking with an attorney. I think it helps me be a more intelligent consumer of their professional services. In short, it helps me communicate with them and I think it was worthwhile. I would second the suggestion of some night classes in these areas.

Regards and good luck,
-Art K

Thanks one and all for the advice. I knew you guys whould have good insight. I'm leaning towards not going right now mainly because of lack of time due to family (a kid and a wife that doesn't get home until 8:30 at the earliest). Also I think I should devote my time to getting started on a real small level. It's funny that one of the best businessmen I've met is my Dad (he does have a degree but in teaching). he taught me things like keeping debt low, you don't have to have the fanciest equipment, and making deals that are fair to both sides.

Thanks again, Jon