Surface Grinder - missing oil pump
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  1. #1
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    Default Surface Grinder - missing oil pump

    I bought a Harig Super 612 on an auction, and in getting it set up last night, found the oil pump to be missing. Looks like the pump lubricates the ways, and the vertical lead screw, but I cannot tell if it also lubricates the spindle bearings.

    Do I need this pump for occasional light use, or do you think I can manually lubricate it periodically? If I need one, any ideas where I might look? I need to find a manual as well a few other parts, as well.

    Thanks.
    Randy
    [email protected]

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    Just buy a small "Little Giant" pump and plumb in.

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    I am Ox and I approve this here post!

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    You will need a manifold some restictors to meter the way lube or all the oil will go to the lowest (least resistance) orifice. The spindle does not need any lubrication. The ways all drain into gutters which return to the sump. The table motion needs the most oil, then the cross slide, then the vertical ways. There should be plastic or brass tube oil lines to each and a sight glass at the top of the column which should fill up within 30 seconds after pump starts (usually wired to start with the spinle motor). RJT

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    Looks like there were two 1/4" lines that connected to the pump. One went towards the table, and the other went up the column (I suppose to the sight glass first).

    I did see a machine on e-bay with a 'one-shot' type system mounted on the side. If I don't have to worry about spindle bearings, I'd say one of these might work for me, but it would be nice to have a pump that draws from the sump.

    With regard to the Little Giant pump, I know they handle coolant well, but do you think it would have the guts to pump way oil? Especially when the oil is cold?

    Thanks for everyone's comments.

    Randy

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    Had one in mine for nearing 20 yrs...

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    Back in 1998 I rebuilt one of these surface grinders. I bought the pump from Harig. Their part number was 17746507 and I paid $221.85. I also bought a "restricting valve" (basically an in-line needle control valve) that is used to control how much oil goes where. Since this was a rebuild, I put everything like this, in new. I may have the old pump someplace, I'm not going to look for it just now, but maybe in a week or so. As you know, the bed is supposed to "float" on the oil film. The guy I rebuilt the grinder for hardly uses it, and doesn't like to turn on the pump first. So, he has been using it as you are considering. The pump is 230vac, don't remember if it was single or 3-phase.

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    Jim,

    I guess I wasn't thinking, as you're right, the table should 'float'. In this regard, a continuous flow of oil would be the way to go. It would be great if yours turns up, and I'll stand by. Single or 3 phase OK.

    OX,

    20 years says a lot. If Jim doesn't find his, I'll look at going this way. Are you using a submersible type?

    Thanks!

    Randy
    [email protected]

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    I used and maintained Harig surface grinders for 30 years where I worked. I now have a 612 of my own.

    I also recommend buying a replacement pump with the correct pressure and volume of oil from Harig. There are two oil lines and one has a petcock valve. One oil line goes upward to lube the down feed screw and the vertical gibs. The other oil line lubes the table, saddle and crossfeed screw. The petcock valve regulates how much oil feeds to the table and saddle. The lower oil lines need the restriction so oil will also find its way upward to the head. Otherwise all the oil goes out the lower oil line. The Harig oil pump should run anytime the spindle runs. I'm afraid a one shot lub system won't pump enough oil.

    Harig also recommends using their way oil. Regular way oil will gel if contaminated with coolant. I have done a number of oil changes in Harig grinders where the coagulated way oil was lifted out with my hands like jellow. I called Harig and learned about using their oil only which I now use. The Harig oil should not gel.

    It is also good practice to lift off the table and remove the saddle. Clean the ways and oil return gutters. Before replacing the table start the spindle/oil pump and watch to see the Harig way oil appear. That is a good time to set the petcock valve.

    Jim

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    Default 612 Harig grinder

    I bought a manual operated 612 Harig surface grinder at an auction and when I went to pick it up the next day the taper wheel adaptor was gone and when I got the unit home I looked thru the manual I got with it and found the pump was missing also. I took I apart to check the ways which turned out to be OK. I just assumed a Harig pump wold be expensive. ( whow $220), so according to the oil circuit diagram the pump only needs a pressure of of about 4 psi because above this a pipe in the circuit thats about 2' high allows any excess oil to just flow back into the resevovoir in the base. A tiny low pressure pump that would fit into the base was all that was needed. Maybe a fish tank pump. But I just happened to have a hydraulic pump for a oil furnace that would be capable of high pressure I got at my favorate recycle ( junk ) yard. As I recall it was a tiny gear pump contained in a bulky body. Striped it down to a small working package and with a $ 4 brass needle valve and 1/4" plastic tubing plumbed it with a filter and with a small fan motor to drive it installed in the back of the grinder. I left the motor outside to belt drive the pump.
    It worked like a charm but before I adjusted the needle valve the oil poured out from the ends of the ways. The manual says to adjust the small oil volume so it just does not drip off the ways but still lubricates the ways.
    I used it for several years nicely but sold it on ebay when I got a larger surface grinder.
    I have a 100% rating on ebay so I carefully told about having the alternate pump so I would not get a negiative rating.
    So get a manual and it will clear it all up.
    Walt

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyf7f View Post
    Jim,

    I guess I wasn't thinking, as you're right, the table should 'float'. In this regard, a continuous flow of oil would be the way to go. It would be great if yours turns up, and I'll stand by. Single or 3 phase OK.

    OX,

    20 years says a lot. If Jim doesn't find his, I'll look at going this way. Are you using a submersible type?

    Thanks!

    Randy
    [email protected]

    Yeah - but it doesn't "submerse" totally. LOL!

    And before anyone asks - I don't believe that they make the exact model that I have anymore - but one that just fits in the cavity should be quite sufficient.

    I doo not agree that the pump should run anytime the spindle runs! It should run anytime the table is used much tho. I doo not run it when using the whirly-gig as I want it to hold position.

    Coolant on a 612?


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    As was mentioned clean out all oil supply and return lines.My oil system had ameobas growing in it that crawled out of the ocean when the earth was formed.It took me the better part of a day to clean it out properly.Easier just to replace flex lines with Tygon tubing.Lacquer thinner works well.

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    I second what Ox says.
    I use Little Giant pumps on my Harigs. They usually last me 5-10 years running 2 shifts 5-6 days per week. (about the same as the factory pumps)
    Since the top pipe is unrestricted pressure in the system is controlled by the column height. Any excess just flows down the column back to the sump. Pump won't be submerged but will have return oil flowing over it to cool it.
    Oil temp stabilizes in about an hour so we like to start ours up an hour before the shift starts. The flowing oil helps keep the column thermally stable.(you only need to do this if you're trying to "split tenths")
    Factory setup also has a fine screen filter. I replace mine with a in-line snowmobile fuel filter.
    Bob

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    My two Harig 612's had pumps intact !!!
    A buddies didn't, he went the fish tank pump route with restricter valve to control flow , $39.00 from pet shop (and fits in reservoir quite neatly.
    works a charm too !
    Steve

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    Thats a lot of good info, and thanks to everyone.

    First order of business is to pull the table, clean everything real well, and look it over good.

    I am curious about one other thing: The table well drains into a gutter, just behind the table, on the cross slide. This gutter has about a 1" opening on the left side of the machine (may be on the right also, but did not look). Just underneath, and slightly aft, there is a similar size hole in the side of the base, that looks to dump into the sump, where the lubrication pump is located. Was it ever intended that these, two openings be connected? If so, it would mean that the way oil would be used as coolant also. But, would you want grinding debris washed into the sump? If not, why the hole in the side of the sump?

    Thanks!

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    Do you mean the 1" hole about 4 inches below the table drain?
    If so notice that there is a matching hole in the other side. These don't connect to the sump. They are for lifting the machine, you run a pipe or steel bar through these holes and sling the machine from the pipe.
    Since you're asking I assume you don't have a manual?
    Bob

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    Bob,
    Ok, that makes sense. Correct - no manual in hand yet, but found one on e-bay for $30. Should fill in the gaps. Thanks.

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    My 612 pump didn't run so I checked for voltage and sure enough had 220 volts +or_ . The only problem was that the pump was clearly marked "110 volts". I bought a pump on ebay but have not had time to finish the project. I would offer you the pump but I know the motor is fried. I need to order a manual and will no dought have numerous questions thereafter.

    Rick

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    OX,
    Need a pump for my Harig 6x12, do you remember which model "Little Giant" you used???

  19. #19
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    That particular model # is obsolete now I think.

    Just need to werk off the dimmensions available...


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Thumbs up

    Randy,
    If You are missing the Oil Pump this is the type of pump You need !
    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-TRICO-PE-300...QQcmdZViewItem

    This is a fancy one, You can go with a basic model and cheaper.

    You can also search for Showa, Bijur, Lube-Matic, Vogel,.....

    If you need a coolant pump, go with the Little Giant.


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