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Tool grinder

CBlair

Diamond
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Location
Lawrenceville GA USA
I know this topic has been covered in similar post but I am looking for some advice. I am looking for a grinder that can be used for grinding single point tools for lathe work as well as grinding custom profiles on drill bits and broaching tools. Of course I will probably be advised that there is a different tool for each of these applications. I am not interested in grinding endmills or sharpening reamers or taps. I only want some advice as to what type of grinder will work the best for grinding tool profiles similar to the boring bars commonly used in boring heads for mills. I modify these all the time useing a dremel tool and bench grinder but I need better repeatability. I will occationally want to grind carbide but HSS is the most common.

Are the Deckel single lip tools good for this type of work or would something else be better. As far as grinding drills and drill shaped tools, is there a tool that will do both or do I need to get a separate tool for each.

There is a wide variety available on ebay but I do not even know which one will do what I want. The only tool grinder I have ever used was one for sharpening endmills and I did not find it useful for anything else.

Charles
 
boy, you've set some tough parameters. For the single point tools and boring bars, a small manual surface grinder is the ticket if you can't bear to freehand. You can use a vise,a sine plate, or various cheap spin indexes (I mean the really cheap imports, not a suburban) to hold the work.

For instance, I have a 3/4" round bar with a 1/4" keyway milled in the end. I mount this in a collet in a cheap index, put the lathe tool in holding it to the bar with a small lathe dog. Then I dress the surface grinder wheel, and can use this to very closely get ideal threading tools with optimum leading and trailing relief for the thread pitch at hand. I started using it to make square thread and buttress thread tools, which have very little leeway and for which there are no fishtail gages made. Now, since I can hardly see small stuff, I use it for other thread tools too, including common 60º.

As mentioned in a previous post, I grind all other lathe tools freehand by eye. But you can easily do them on the surface grinder if you want to spend all the extra time.

For drill points, you can use a cheapo sharpener like those made to sharpen bits to a bench grinder; on the surface grinder. Or you can get a Polychoke or similar index which is offset in the main bore to provide variable radial relief as the bit is turned. With a little thought, you can use these to do accurate web thinning, or true split points. (theres a number of manufacturers of different styles) Whether you want to or not, these are also good for taps, and i have used one to make special thread taps.

Your complication is the broach requirement. If they are all really short, you can do them on a surface grinder. But the wheel points the wrong way for practical use. You can watch ebay for a right angle head for the surface grinder, and then do broaches up to the x axis capacity. But generally speaking there is no x axis micrometer dial or index. A flicker finger can be used to indicate off the previous tooth; this does presume broaches with uniform tooth spacing.

At this point, a tool & cutter grinder starts to look more practical because it is easier to orient the wheel cross ways to the longest axis. But again, the longest axis most likely does not have a mic dial. One procedure is to clamp the broach to the table with the teeth overhanging the edge. This is an option if the wheel head on the particular T & C grinder will lower (or table rise) so the wheelhead is centered on the edge. cuts. But any other than a very narrow broach requires motion on all 3 axis to sharpen each tooth! (table x to index, tabel in to plunge, wheelhead rise and fall to traverse tooth).

Either machine will do single point tools, almost a no-brainer. The t&c with a tilting work head or vise is a little more versitle, but the surface grinder with mag chuck may be more convenient once you work out a procedure.

Either machine will do drill points conveniently..... with an accessory for radial relief.

T&C manuals sometimes show broach sharpening but the one I've seen that specifically reccomends it, including photos, (Le Blond of Cincinnati) is vague to the point of obscurity about tooth indexing.

If broach sharpening is important to you and you don't want to get a real broach sharpener, maybe consider getting an auxilliary spindle (often called high speed spindles, but heavier duty ones can be had for say 3600 rpm too) and mount it to over hang the table, wheel crossways, when you want to do broaches. Then you can set up to index with the table and traverse to grind with the table in-out.

Personally, I think a 6 - 18 size surface grinder, add the attachments you need, would be good for your needs. Added benefit is the addition of a surface grinder, too, for other uses and tools. It could take a while to catch a right angle head, but they are out there, or you could make one.

smt
 
I agree with pretty much everything Stephen said. When I closed down my shop in Tucson, I decided to keep my new 6X18 surface grinder and sell (for $750) my #2 copy tool & cutter grinder. There have been several times that I wish I had that back. I had to choose and I decided on the surface grinder for my 1 machine.

The single lip grinders like Deckal usually only have a 5/8" round capacity. Collets are hard to find and pricey.

It sounds like what you need for "your" application, that a #2 cinci or a copy would do everything that you need. Should be able to find a decent one with tooling for <$1K.

JR
 
A description and pics of a Deckel single lip grinder can be found here.

http://www.michael-deckel.de/english/frames1.html

It can be had with some kind of an attachment for drill grinding , must confess tough I`ve never seen or used one.
As said before , broaching tools are way to long to do on this little machine.
For grinding single point lathe tools and boring tools it will be everything you will ever need.
Collets with a square opening are also available.
 
Thanks to each of you for your reply. I did not expect to answer my questions fully in just one or two posts. The reason for this is that I often need to make my own small tools to turn inside grooves and threads. I have always done these by hand and I have been successful. However I find it difficult to be consistant with some of the smaller tools. I useually use a boring bar to start with and modify it. I had begun to think that with all of the grinders available on ebay that there would be one that I could use. Unfortunately I have never used any of them and I do not know which one would be better for this task. The Deckel single lip and Cincinnati #2 are both available right now but I just can't figure out which would be better.

As far as hand grinding goes, I have and will contiunue to use this method but I do need to learn to expand my capabilities. Is there a book about toolsharpening that might cover some of the uses and differences beteween these tools?

As far as broaches go, I make my own and use them in the lathe or a small shaper. These are not the standard type of broach with increaseing teeth. They are made more like scrapeing or planing tools. When it comes to makeing a specific size or radius it can be difficult to do by hand. I would like to find a grider that I could use instead.

This is getting to long, it will be a book before I get done.

Charles
 
I picked up a Swiss made Select-O-Point drill point grinder for small drills only, pin collets hold the bits, believe the capacity is limited to 1/8" dia max, anxious to put it to use but have not been able to find any documentation, can anyone help? Thanks

dephen_ _ _ [email protected]

[This message has been edited by dephenicie (edited 09-04-2003).]
 
Is that 1-1/8" capacity?

I have a Christen Select-O-Point grinder. Mine states 1-1/4" cap however I have sharpened 1-5/16" dia. drills.
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I receive offers to trade mine in on a new one with a payment of $12K
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My contact sheet for the Christen list these companies:

JERICO, Inc in Wood Dale, IL 630-616-7901
Good people to deal with, helpful and better pricing too.

Senn Company Northport, NY 516-757-8091

Might search the Thomas Register for more dealers.
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[This message has been edited by timekiller (edited 09-04-2003).]
 
Hi Stephen, Is the manual for the PC101 still available? I tried to send a PM but your box is full and it won't accept another message.

Kindest Regards,

Julian
 
So very different to roll a drill so it starts about 12* and goes/rolls up to 30* or so at the heal / and a machine the grinds a straight land with clearance. Surface grinder with some do-dads like a turn and tilt vise or the like for For bits and boring bar bits. Ok but some skill needed.

SG not very good for rolling drills but can do a good job of faceted drills with having a straight/flat grind at 12* and a secondary at 25 or what it takes to clear the heel from rubbing.

Having /making a bit holder vise for the Deckel might be Ok, but if very practical they would have offered that.

Having a bench grinder with a carbide grinder table would be good for tool bits but that seems not made.

OP question [ is there a tool that will do both or do I need to get a separate tool for each]
Yes likely you need two machines.


For one up bits you cant beat doing by hand..Just takes practice.
 








 
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