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  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoagie Boat View Post
    I think it could work with a right angle attachment., but I would want to have a fixture for the part that prevents it from rotating with the quill. When using the hand drill I usually do this by holding the part down by hand. If I were to let go of the part and continue cranking, I can almost guarantee that the tap would break, but since I can feel how much force it's taking to drive the tap, I immediately know if I should stop, back it out a little and keep pecking away. With a mill or drill press you lose that tactile feel, making it a little tougher to know if the tap is having trouble, probably leading to some broken taps and scrapped parts, Hopefully nothing flying off the machine for that matter.

    I haven't set up a fixture that would allow me to completely let go of the part as it feeds into the tap.... Ouch... uh oh... An idea has just been conceived. It's about to go into labor...

    We start with a milling machine that has nice clean table slots and some room for a vice towards one end which will be set up so that it can glide along the x axis without jumping around or twisting or getting stuck. It doesn't have to be perfect but the smoother the better. So one possibility would be to mount the vise on a platform held into the table slots, probably lubed up, maybe with bearings or wheels or maybe those furniture sliders as seen on TV. How ever it works, it will preferably make an old school machinist cringe in disgust sprinkled with a hint of fear that this contraption may actually work. (Sorry,I had to pay homage to my father. Creativity was frowned upon during my training. Creative ideas that actually worked were acts of rebellion. Creative Ideas that worked better than his way were acts of war.)

    Ok back to the program. We have our vice set up with part loaded and indicated, and we load the appropriate drill in the right angle attachment. For the drilling we probably have the vice secured in place or at least stopped on the backside. We drill the hole, cranking the table in the x direction. Time to tap that thing. Load the tap and remove the stops on the vice. Mark the tap for our depth. Apply favorite cutting fluid. Fire up the spindle in low RPM. Something around 200 RPM should work fine. Slowly crank the table towards the tap keeping one hand on the spindle switch... AT LAST THE MOMENT OF TRUTH... Ideally the hole will engage the tap causing the vice to feed in on it's own. I'm predicting that a little hand pressure to coax it along will take the stress off the tap and spindle, also providing some tactile feedback. Lightly feeding the table instead may achieve the same result. Pecking would probably not be a bad idea either. As the part nears the finish line, spindle off, reverse it in low with gentle hand pressure to help the tap spit out the part.

    It sounds good to me, in theory. The point when we reverse the spindle to back the tap out might be the make or break moment (provided that the main concept of the sliding vice isn't a total dud). I've always been amazed that when a tap is at a dead stop at the bottom of a hole and you turn on the motor, it just squirts out of there like no big deal. Hopefully the same thing happens here. I wish I had the right angle attachment to try it for myself. I suppose I could put the spindle on Old Rusty in horizontal mode.

    I like your idea to use a drill for this. I'm assuming you mean an electric hand drill. The back of my brain is trying to figure out a good way to fix a drill at the end of the table but not actually connected to the table. The snag is that there's nothing convenient to build off in my shop. Did you just build it up from the the floor? It would be nice to mount it on the head or load it like a regular tool. The hole for the tap bar stop thing might be a possibility. I'm sure I'll enjoy farting around with it at least. There are so many intricacies about milling machines that I have yet to learn. They're just big toys.

    I'll snap some pics of my hand drill fixture tomorrow. Please pardon my mess of lathe cutters strewn about.


    I think what you are describing is exactly the way we tap using the tailstock of the lathe.

    Cheers,

    Glenn

  2. #522
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    The six inch scale "trick" does not work well in my experience. Think about it. Cutter geometry presents asymmetrically to round stock and therefore cannot pinch a scale tangent to round stock. There is no part of the cutter above center but there is below, subject to clearance angles.

    Better to take a facing test cut and adjust until the tit is removed to your liking...

  3. #523
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    To remove splinters too small to get with tweezers .... lightly run your finger back & forth over the splinter and note which way makes it want to bite in. Take some fine sandpaper and scrub in the opposite direction. Often the grit will grab the splinter and pull it out. If that fails .... put on a drop of Elmers glue and let it dry. Peel off the glue and the splinter will go with it.

    Those clear plastic caps that cover the ends of Niagara end mills .... I leave them on until the drawbar is tightened.

    Running a lathe (that has a threaded spindle) in reverse ..... I use a drawbar through the spindle to keep the chuck from unscrewing. Of course, this limits what I can clamp into the chuck.

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  5. #524
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    We have been using bondo in automotive and aerospace fixture build shops for years; its really handy on misshaped details. Bondo can be used in a large variety of setups. Irregular shaped parts can have ren blocks bondoed to them. Machine the blocks then put some holes in the side of the blocks so you can clamp it to the table. Using a jack on a part that's on an angle to keep it from vibrating. Bondo it right to the part so the jack doesn't unscrew. on anything you want to remove the bondo from easily, just put cutting oil on it and wipe it off. I have used it when machining long angles and built it up under the part so it stopped vibrating at the very end of the cut.

    I have a ring that I ground flat for when I tram my machine in. I have had the ring checked on the CMM and its close enough. stick it in the vice, run the indicator around and that's that. On cuts that I do not feel real comfortable with I will bring my quill down a little bit so in the event things start heading south I can push it up off the part. This has saved me a few times when things started to vibrate to much, that's when the bondo comes out. When I want to use the solid jaw of the vice to square things up I just use a popsicle stick between the movable jaw and the rough side. Sometimes I will use a pc of wood that they use to mix paint.

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  7. #525
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    When setting the depth for a counter bore(on a Bridgeport). I bring my quill down against the stop just above the hole. Make sure you come down further than the depth of the C-bore. While the quill is tightly against the stop, turn the spindle on and raise the table until you see the cutter just touch(bright shiny ring around the hole). Raise your quill then raise your table to the depth that you need. Now you can simply drill the C-bore until it stops at the quill stop and it should be very close.

  8. #526
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    I was once trying to drill a hole in some kind of mold copper. Things were not going well. The hole keep shrinking and lock up on the (twist)drill(bit)? An old tool maker walked over, told me to grab a new drill and regrind it off center, just a little. Sure enough, it worked. I don't know why some types copper seem to shrink as your drilling them, but lessoned learned... If you want the drill to make a hole just a little bigger than it's body, don't worry about the tip being perfectly centered, it may in fact be ideal.

  9. #527
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    When there is a normal dowel pin in a blind hole and you can not drill from the back. get a carbide endmill, crank up the speed and drill right through the middle of the dowel. Then you can do the trick where you fill the hole with oil and use a pin to hydraulically push the dowel pin out. I have a hand drill that goes 15,000 rpm to drill out broken taps and such with carbide in work that can not go on a machine.

  10. #528
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    To keep the hole centerline square to the drilled surface, when hand drilling without a jig, use an extra-long bit to pilot--12"+--and use the corner of a box or angle plate as a guide, keeping the tiniest gap between the drill and the corner, to sight down. You can get very square using this method in the field.

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  12. #529
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    You can also use a small V block for drilling square by hand.

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    This worked slick for cleaning out some nasty coolant tanks today. Stuck a shop vac on the second hole in the lid and all the funk and slimy chips dropped into the bucket ready to be disposed of. The opaque bucket was nice too because I could see when it was full.
    0327142027.jpg

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  15. #531
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    never too late to say thank you been away . jack

  16. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by mf205i View Post
    Gentlemen, For those slivers that you get between your fingers, the ones that you can’t see but still poke you from time to time, wash your hands and rub duct tape into the suspected area and peel the sliver out and off with the tape.
    A favorite handy tool is a hand held magnetic tape eraser, Radio shack, cheap. I use it to demagnetize parts and tools and it is great for picking up spilt parts and chips. It is an AC electromagnet. To demagnetize parts or tools, just touch the tool to the magnet, pull the trigger and slowly withdraw the tool from the magnet.
    Good luck,Mike
    For those type of slivers I read a long time ago that if you run an electric shaver over the area it will usually pull it out. I have done this many times and it works well especially if you have handled fiberglass insulation.

    Nick

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  18. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by G&L bob View Post
    from jigsaw:
    This might be way off the subject but have you tried plain brake fluid to loosen rusty or stuck parts? Better than liquid wrench...
    I was once told that a mixture of half and half brake fluid and carozine make excellent loosening fluid, auto transmission fluid and brake fluid should work about the same.
    Nick

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  20. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by glen12 View Post
    I hate easy outs! One way of gets broken bolts out of almost any thing, is as follows

    If the broken bolt or dowel that is sticking up slightly,
    1st)
    take a smaller diameter bolt and grind a taper on it
    2nd) tig weld the bolt to the broken piece and unscrew

    If the bolt or dowel is below below the surface, you can tig in the middle on the diameter until it is bulit up enough to weld your taper ground screw to.

    This trick has saved me hours and hours when doing repair jobs on any thing.
    The weld seams to free up any thing.

    With broken dowels I will also use a slide on the welded bolt hammer if they are really stuck.
    P.S. If you are not a great welder I would test this mehod on something that is scrap 1st
    Where ever I can I use a nut of the size of the bolt or close to it and braze it onto the broken bolt through the hole. The heat expands the bolt and the flux quite often works on breaking the rust. Let it cool off before you put a wrench to it. Ocasionally I might have to braze it twice. Start by gently twisting it back and forth and use penetrating oil. Some times you have to smack it some with a hammer to break the torque. That what I do when ever possible.
    Nick

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  22. #535
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    Fantastic thread!

    I don't know if you guys have noticed that if you accidentally trap a 6" steel rule between a tool tip and a workpiece revolving at 1000 rpm, but just before the rule severs your jugular it will momentarily give an indication of tool height against centre height.

    But seriously folks.......................

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  24. #536
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    I've read this thread a long time ago don't remember if this was mentioned or not. The chuck on our NC lathes came with a round plug wirh an O ring to seal out chips and coolant from getting back in the draw tube. There is a philips screw driver screw in the middle to insert some kind on a puller that I never made, this has for me always been a PITA to remove until I just put my magnetic base on it then turned it on and it pulls it out like it was made to do so.


    Brent

  25. #537
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    Default finding the edge of the part with a “best test” or “last word” style of indicator

    The tip or trade secrete for finding the edge of the part with a “best test” or “last word” style of indicator is what I can offer.

    I am a newbie to posting and hope this reads well enough to follow. I enjoy reading the other posts and appreciate all the time and effort that make this place possible.

    The edge is usually a ground surface because you require this level of accuracy. After you use the .001” indicator, then use the .0001” indicator to insure the C/L of the spindle is on the exact edge of the part if you have a requirement and the equipment that can hold that level of precision in the controlled environment.

    Use the standard edge finder first and see how close this method works. Bring quill down so indicator is able to sweep thru the part until greatest amount of indicator movement, set ”0”. Raise quill turn spindle 90* have away to hold a ground block (the edge must be higher than the edge of the part) against the surface that was just indicated, turn spindle the other 90* so you can sweep the surface of the ground block, read the indicator (split the difference the indicator traveled) move the part this amount, repeat this until the indicator reads “0” movement.

    Best Wishes!

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  27. #538
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    THANK YOU! The best time I have spent in a long time.
    Now about the 6" rule trick------Lufkin seems way more accurate than Starrett.........

  28. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by old soldier View Post
    Kyle, for years I have used broken or I ground away 1 lip on 2 flute end mills,works great! An old timer showed me how to make a "no chat" boring bar. You make a round or square hole on one end. Drill from the other end all the way to the hole that holds your tool it. From the opposite of the cutting end tap for suitable size set screw. Get a drill blank or hardened rod, put your cutter where you want it,tighten set screw. This bar will dampen or get rid of chatter. Regards from Connecticut, Robert
    can anybody confirm this?

    he sais to drill through the whole bar from the end and clamp the cutter using a long rod, right?

  29. #540
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    Default hold 'Out of Square' parts in vise

    Quote Originally Posted by 2L N Die View Post
    Years ago we had some odd shaped (out of square) parts to machine and drill holes in. The "old guy" in the shop went over to his tool box and pulled out a couple of gear sections. What he had done was taken a flat gear 6" dia. or so and about 3/4" thick then cut it in half. Machined the flats down about an inch on each side. Then when you mesh the teeth together the two flats become adjustable. Just put the good side of the part against the fixed jaw of your vice and the meshed gear on the other and it will adjust to your part. Will work on some pretty severe angles, just take it easy on the cutting.

    Keep the tips coming,
    I really enjoy this site. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Michael
    I machined a flat on an annealed bearing ball, made a tapered bore for the round part of the ball and placed a magnet inside.
    The magnet holds it all together and also attaches it to the vise jaw. Especially good when the work is out of square in two planes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails vise-ball-model.jpg  


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