.070" and .035" ground plate
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    1,049
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1086
    Likes (Received)
    591

    Default .070" and .035" ground plate

    Hi All,

    I need to make 40 shims of a horseshoe type profile, about 7"x7" .035" thick and .070" thick.
    Customer wants them +-.0005" on thickness and parallelism.
    Parts will be water jet cut out.

    The variance on steel gauge-size plates make them a no go.

    The two places I talked to with surface grinders don't aren't interested in grinding 18 ga (.048) down to .035.

    Is there anywhere in Western Canada that can double disc grind the parts after they're cut out?
    Or is there any option to have the plate ground before water jet cutting?
    I think they're both way too thin for blanchard grinding.

    Thanks for any help.

    Ed

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    462
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    132

    Default

    Find someone who can chemically etch then thinner.

    Lost

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    31

    Default

    You can purchase .035 x 8.0 blue steel shim stock from many sources.

    If you don't want the half hard stuff, buy the shiny kind, or the stainless option.

    It will be in tolerance for thickness and parallelism.

    Easy peasy.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,613
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8052

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ManualEd View Post
    The two places I talked to with surface grinders don't aren't interested in grinding 18 ga (.048) down to .035.

    Is there anywhere in Western Canada...
    Presume your "real" challenge is you can't wait the 2+ weeks any of the "usual suspects" who make shim material all day, every day to those tolerances - and BETTER - need to process a custom order? NB: Doesn't seem you'd even need "custom", anyway, so maybe but a few days.

    Time and budget permitting, JF buy the stock you need.

    It don't mass enough to make it hard to get it to you.

    (Thunderjet types faster. Or I wasted more time confirming sources. Or both.)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    9,789
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3312
    Likes (Received)
    3514

    Default

    Qt [with surface grinders] That is grinding a lot of air on a surface grinder..

    QT: I think they're both way too thin for Blanchard grinding.

    Have you checked at a Blanchard shop? wont know till you ask.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    868
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    626
    Likes (Received)
    299

    Default

    Interestingly the tolerances on shim stock at McMaster aren't super tight, eg .035" +/- .002" for spring steel and .00175" (what?) for 301 Half Hard. If someone could identify a supplier who makes material to that tolerance that would be a valuable contribution.
    You could ask Williams and White, the Burnaby shop that does blanshard grinding. I've had plenty of thicker stuff ground to more like +/- .001" Grinding regular cold rolled sheet could be dubious however since surface grinding it is likely to expose hidden stress and the sheets will warp on you. Of course as the engineer I have to be dubious about why anyone needs shims that accurate, particularly as you'd think you'd want all the shims to be be within a tight range but not necessarily centered at a particular number. As always the peanut gallery remains curious about the application.

  7. Likes ManualEd liked this post
  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,613
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8052

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rcoope View Post
    If someone could identify a supplier who makes material to that tolerance that would be a valuable contribution.
    Only if from those who USE a lot of it, surely, not I. I get by for years on-end with a basic MMC "asssortment" pack, all Bronze, even so.

    All I did was google then sieve on the basis of "going around behind" those who stock it (MMC, MSC, Grainer/Zoro) ..to find instead those who at least appear to MAKE it. Grain of salt. Sue Google, not me if it's wrong. If nothing else, they are the ones with MONEY!



    Shim Stock Archives - Precision Brand Products, Inc.

    Stainless Steel Shim Stock, Shim Stock: Artus Corp

    Custom Shim Stock

    There are more. Some work in plastic shims, too.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    1,049
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1086
    Likes (Received)
    591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rcoope View Post
    Interestingly the tolerances on shim stock at McMaster aren't super tight, eg .035" +/- .002" for spring steel and .00175" (what?) for 301 Half Hard. If someone could identify a supplier who makes material to that tolerance that would be a valuable contribution.
    You could ask Williams and White, the Burnaby shop that does blanshard grinding. I've had plenty of thicker stuff ground to more like +/- .001" Grinding regular cold rolled sheet could be dubious however since surface grinding it is likely to expose hidden stress and the sheets will warp on you. Of course as the engineer I have to be dubious about why anyone needs shims that accurate, particularly as you'd think you'd want all the shims to be be within a tight range but not necessarily centered at a particular number. As always the peanut gallery remains curious about the application.
    They're for a stack of 10-15 saw guides. If you go much looser than +-.0005" error stack up gets too extreme. If you stack up .015" error over the 6" clamping surface, you'll have enough error to melt the babbit as soon as the saw starts up.


    Thermite, being in Canada we're incredibly limited to suppliers. I haven't found anyone for custom shim dimensions in Canada, and most of the pre-made stuff you've linked to doesn't have the needed dimensions.

    The American Metals Co looks like a good bet though. It might just work out to have them cut the profile as well as grind the thickness so I don't have to ship 2x4 sheets across the border.
    Thanks a bunch.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,613
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8052

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ManualEd View Post
    Thermite, being in Canada we're incredibly limited to suppliers. I haven't found anyone for custom shim dimensions in Canada, and most of the pre-made stuff you've linked to doesn't have the needed dimensions.
    Sheesh. You should try getting technoidal stuff in some third-world country. Brunei, Jabatan Telecom once told me to go ahead and fly in basic copper wire - and the technicians to install it - from JAPAN, their dime. For German equipment, yet!



    Canada is missing a LOT of suppliers because one actually CAN get goods across the border, so Canadian businesses tend to compete mostly where they actually have an advantage of some kind. Not speaking just of goods from the USA, either!

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Langley, B.C.
    Posts
    1,605
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    324
    Likes (Received)
    939

    Default

    There are a number of places in the States that make custom shims. SKF is one of them.

    Machinery shim kits SKF TMAS series - Stainless steel shim

    Might be worth calling Wajax or some of the other bearing suppliers. They might have easier access to the
    custom shims...

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    868
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    626
    Likes (Received)
    299

    Default

    I've never had any problem getting anything in Canada, it just sometimes costs more for shipping and brokerage. I've never had a specialty supplier not ship here.
    One way to reduce the tolerance stack up might be to grind thicker shims in multiples of .035, like .105, .140, .175. Then you might be able to get to the right thickness with only a couple of shims. Or can you have a different thicknesses down to .001" so you can stack shims to the right thickness like one does with gauge blocks?

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,166
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1420
    Likes (Received)
    1493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Qt [with surface grinders] That is grinding a lot of air on a surface grinder..

    QT: I think they're both way too thin for Blanchard grinding.

    Have you checked at a Blanchard shop? wont know till you ask.
    I ran a blanchard for some years, 42" mag. I would cuss my boss up and down if I got that job... just saying.

    Maybe a smaller model would be more tolerable, I dunno.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,166
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1420
    Likes (Received)
    1493

    Default make out of 2 pieces?

    Any way you could make this horseshoe like profile out of 2 pieces? It might make it easier to source for grinding- IE, could nest the parts and fit more onto a magnet at one time....

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,166
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1420
    Likes (Received)
    1493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rcoope View Post
    I've never had any problem getting anything in Canada, it just sometimes costs more for shipping and brokerage. I've never had a specialty supplier not ship here.
    One way to reduce the tolerance stack up might be to grind thicker shims in multiples of .035, like .105, .140, .175. Then you might be able to get to the right thickness with only a couple of shims. Or can you have a different thicknesses down to .001" so you can stack shims to the right thickness like one does with gauge blocks?
    I like this idea, but not sure if it applies to this scenario. I use to do this when making shims for dies. My co-workers were content to add another .05-.01-.02 etc shim (all half-assed punched I might add) every time they sharpened a die steel. When the jobs got to me, I would measure up the shims and make a thicker one, usually out of stock we had on hand, (which might be .120-.093 etc) we had shears and stuff to easily cut pcs out . Then add the appropriate shims as required. Of course this took a little longer to mill out the bolt holes and die clearance, but eliminated the possibility of shims overlapping die clearance holes and whatnot...

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    1,049
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1086
    Likes (Received)
    591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rcoope View Post
    I've never had any problem getting anything in Canada, it just sometimes costs more for shipping and brokerage. I've never had a specialty supplier not ship here.
    One way to reduce the tolerance stack up might be to grind thicker shims in multiples of .035, like .105, .140, .175. Then you might be able to get to the right thickness with only a couple of shims. Or can you have a different thicknesses down to .001" so you can stack shims to the right thickness like one does with gauge blocks?
    Good thinking, but .035 and .070 are the final shim thicknesses.
    They also need to be 1pc as theres 6 different people pulling the stack apart 4 times a day, so they can't risk dropping a shim, or having a shim fold over.

    Small parts are a colossal pain in the ass, but I think we're on the right track with the custom shim manufacturers.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Beaumont, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    164
    Likes (Received)
    1448

    Default

    McMaster does list 0.035" shim stock. In addition, you say the local places weren't interested in grinding 18 ga (.048) down to .035. But you can get 0.040 shim stock from McMaster. Would they perhaps consider that?

    And they also have 2mm shim stock which is 0.0787". That is only about 0.0087" oversized; would they do that?

    I know McMaster can be a problem in Canada, but there must be other sources that have these sizes.



    Quote Originally Posted by ManualEd View Post
    Hi All,

    I need to make 40 shims of a horseshoe type profile, about 7"x7" .035" thick and .070" thick.
    Customer wants them +-.0005" on thickness and parallelism.
    Parts will be water jet cut out.

    The variance on steel gauge-size plates make them a no go.

    The two places I talked to with surface grinders don't aren't interested in grinding 18 ga (.048) down to .035.

    Is there anywhere in Western Canada that can double disc grind the parts after they're cut out?
    Or is there any option to have the plate ground before water jet cutting?
    I think they're both way too thin for blanchard grinding.

    Thanks for any help.

    Ed

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,245
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    406
    Likes (Received)
    1630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I ran a blanchard for some years, 42" mag. I would cuss my boss up and down if I got that job... just saying.

    Maybe a smaller model would be more tolerable, I dunno.
    I used to have a 42" Blanchard. I did some thin spacers for a customer and they were no fun.

    The .070" parts would probably stay put, but the .035" would be moving all over the place- at least on my machine...

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    7,410
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    365
    Likes (Received)
    6208

    Default

    Blanchard size makes no difference.
    This is done with a retaining ring and blocking as is grinding carbide or ceramics.
    Finding someone with that tooling on the shelf is the harder part.
    Mine only goes to 058 and I'd hate to kill it for a one shot .035 job.
    I have trimmed down the tooling and done .012 on a Blanchard for a government job in my more foolish days... Dad was not happy with me.
    Bob

  20. Likes TeachMePlease liked this post
  21. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,245
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    406
    Likes (Received)
    1630

    Default

    I had several retaining rings, but nothing that thin- not even close.

    What I found was that there was a point when the parts started getting too thin, the magnet just wouldn't hold them.

    This ring is .055" thick. That was about as thin as I wanted to fuss with. Much thinner, they'd just kind of start swimming around on the chuck.

    Take it with a grain of salt- I never considered myself much of a grinder, just managed to get by. I imagine if I spent some time getting them properly blocked in I could do them- and I did the occasional non-ferrous parts, so I knew the drill.

    spacer-ring.jpg

  22. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    7,410
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    365
    Likes (Received)
    6208

    Default

    A flat plate ring like that will not hold unless you drill countersunk holes in it and drill and tap the chuck.
    The magnet is way too weak out there.
    There is a different type that clamps to the step shoulder on the chuck. An outside band of sorts. It is not going anywhere.
    Bob


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •