1/2-10 5 Start Lead Screw Tap - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    I’ll have to take a look. I am long ways off from work for the holidays.

    The nut material will either be a leader free machining brass, or a bearing bronze. I know those are two different materials but haven’t decided which I want to go with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayAndrew View Post
    Posts saying “Go buy the part” aren’t helpful. Yes McMaster sells them for $65 a piece, and i can buy them. I bought the lead screw stock from McMaster. Having more time then money, and having a desire to learn, I want to try and figure out a solution, as if I couldn’t just go buy the part.

    If it’s something that is best done on a CNC lathe, which I am thinking it is, I have a brother who would love to tackle something like this. So it helps him try something new and learn.

    The reason I am going with lead screws instead of a belt drive is that the printer has a heavier print head then most and I would like to swap out the print head for a engraver. Based on what I have seen in the market the lead screws were a better option then cogged belts.

    Ball screws are an option but for me it came down to the budget.

    Movement speed for the X and Y axis are 50mm/s which is fast, to me, but is on the slow end for printer. The 1/2-10 5 Start is .500 per revolution, which gives me (in theory) a resolution of .0025 per degree. Which is far better then the resolution that we can expect from extruding out plastics. It is a good balance between speed and precision based on the stepper motors I am using.


    Definitely not trying to reinvent the wheel here. 3D printer are built on decades old tech with some modern computing thrown in. A lot of the component selection and the design is based on a lot of seeing what has been done with other builds.
    You are kidding yerself on the "budget" to think you know something that MMC and suppliers do NOT know as to the manufacture of the goods and their real-world costs.

    Multi-start leadscrews - or for that matter "helical CAMS" can assuredly deal with rapid movement.

    Think rifled firearms - clear up to 16"-50 Mark 7 and its "super heavy" projectiles - proven AFTER the war to blow right though IJN's heaviest Yamato class turret-face armour samples and keep on truckin'.

    But you no gots the option of using explosives for power, nor having one of the major components designed to be used exactly ONCE!



    Back in the world you DO have ..the wear-rate and the forces go way up compared to a low-friction ballscrew simply rotated at a higher RPM.

    That ain't theory.

    Lotta grey-hairs here have had to deal with repair to similar goods, have SEEN them plumb wore-out. Why d'you think they are such "minority use" goods to begin with?

    Don't try to solve one problem by designing-in a worse problem, yet.

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    I don’t disagree.

    What is built into the cost of a part sold at a a supplier?

    Time, materials, retail market, and shipping...

    What do I stand to gain from purchasing from a retailer? I get the part, it’s fully functional, and there is no frustration on my end or wasted time. I also don’t get to learn a whole lot. I know how to trim the material down to size and finish it.

    Here what I am doing, I am taking care of a mill and a mine that is in a care and maintenance period. Short of playing cards, and seeing that the environmental permits are up to date, I am being paid to baby sit the site.

    Sounds like a dream job, it’s like any other job with its upsides and downsides, I’d rather be busy in an operating plant then to sit on my arse all day long. I get paid to do nothing but wait until copper price goes up. So to pass the time, I do projects to try and either keep up my skills, or to expand my skill set. Hence why I am doing some of these projects, and why I’m trying to make use of what I have rather then purchasing everything premade.

    I’m paying for this out of my own pocket, but it is for the interest of learning something new. The material cost is small either way, and if I have to buy a little extra tooling to do it, I am all for that.

    So, back to the cost of the part. Yes, i can buy it. I can do the minimum amount of work to get this going. Or I can give myself or my brother something new and grow the skills we have. I won’t save money, might learn something new, I’m just trying to figure out how to do it. I will likely never need to do this exact job again, but maybe tricks that I learn doing this job I can apply to other jobs.


    Back on topic... I was reading that there may be an alternate way to do timing for threads then using a timing dial on the lathe. That feeding in the cross slide by a set amount will also adjust the timing. The one example I was reading the gentleman fed in .0165” on the cross slide and rezero’ed the compound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayAndrew View Post
    ..either keep up my skills, or to expand my skill set. Hence why I am doing some of these projects, and why I’m trying to make use of what I have rather then purchasing everything premade.
    However you arrived, you have arrived at "PM".

    Folks here have made more mistakes than can be counted. Have learnt from them. Have chosen to come here and share of our pain. And how to avoid it.

    No need to endure the repetition of what you can read about and avoid.
    Or choose to duplicate, where useful.

    Ex:

    Just CAST the silly nut off the shafting you already bought as a mold.

    ELSE take an angle-grinder to a length of threaded goods, taper an end, slot grooves as gullets, leave only narrow ribs of the thread standing. That can function well-enough in softer metal or a plastic as a "tap" .. even lacking proper back-relief.

    "Both" could work, too. "Tap" to loosen-up a casting.

    Either of a metal or a plastic will last long enough if made physically long enough to prove or disprove your concept.

    On to something ELSE more useful for the next learning experience.

    Learning gits sorta short-circuited you goes OCD fixated on any one bump in the road.

    Can't go through it with the resources you actually have, not the resources you can only WISH you had?

    Go TF around it and continue the march, some other route.

    Some call that "Management". Others simply call it "basic human survival".

    Works well. Has lasted a VERY long time.

    PS: Aaland Islands are getting over-crowded, so many PM'ers are defaulting their actual location.

    Fix that, wilyah?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayAndrew View Post
    Back on topic... I was reading that there may be an alternate way to do timing for threads then using a timing dial on the lathe. That feeding in the cross slide by a set amount will also adjust the timing. The one example I was reading the gentleman fed in .0165” on the cross slide and rezero’ed the compound.
    That is correct. And since this is an Acme profile, that's a great way to adjust you root width. You grind the tool a little narrow, cut the thread to depth, then use the compound to dial in the width.

    I wouldn't rezero the dial, just plan your offsets in advance to lessen the chances of messing it up. That won't be an easy thread, it's quite fussy, but with good planning and diligence you'll get it.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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    Default 1/2-10 5 Start Lead Screw Tap

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    That is correct. And since this is an Acme profile, that's a great way to adjust you root width. You grind the tool a little narrow, cut the thread to depth, then use the compound to dial in the width.

    I wouldn't rezero the dial, just plan your offsets in advance to lessen the chances of messing it up. That won't be an easy thread, it's quite fussy, but with good planning and diligence you'll get it.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the help.

    What is the calc for the feed in on the cross slide? Is this something I can look up in the machinists handbook?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayAndrew View Post
    Thanks for the help.

    What is the calc for the feed in on the cross slide? Is this something I can look up in the machinists handbook?
    MH is always a good reference. Not sure if it'll have that thread in chart form, but it'll have the profile data and you can interpolate from there.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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    If someone told me that you could buy a 1/2-10 FIVE START BRONZE ACME NUT FOR FORTY DOLLARS,I would say that they are nuts. Yet ,Mcmaster carr has them. The only reason that I could see for makng these yourself ,is some sort of personal challenge. Edwin Dirnbeck

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwin dirnbeck View Post
    If someone told me that you could buy a 1/2-10 FIVE START BRONZE ACME NUT FOR FORTY DOLLARS,I would say that they are nuts. Yet ,Mcmaster carr has them. The only reason that I could see for makng these yourself ,is some sort of personal challenge. Edwin Dirnbeck
    Well it IS actually specified as "some sort of personal challenge".

    His or a close relative's.

    It just doesn't seem like the best of investment of such to be useful, going forward off what can be learned.

    The NEED is too uncommon, the goods when they ARE needed, affordable stock items for niche providers, and the end-use appears to be highly sub-optimal as well.

    Plenty of learny things as can produce improved skills and nice-to-have tools off the back of the effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayAndrew View Post
    ...I was reading that there may be an alternate way to do timing for threads then using a timing dial on the lathe. That feeding in the cross slide by a set amount will also adjust the timing. The one example I was reading the gentleman fed in .0165” on the cross slide and rezero’ed the compound.
    Reverse that. Feeding in the compound, when set parallel to Z, will adjust timing.

    Good idea to use a dial indicator to track the location of the compound. That way you can move back and forth between threads without worrying about backlash, which is useful for ensuring all threads finish at the same depth.

    Teryk



    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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    Default Advancing lead on a screw and nut

    Quote Originally Posted by JayAndrew View Post
    Does such a tap exist? I would like to make my own lead screw nuts, but am not overly confident in my ability to cut an internal diameter 5 start thread.

    Alternatively would you go about making a 1/2-10 5 Start tap the same way you would approach making a 1/2-10 single start lead score tap?




    Check out my website!
    The Ballistic Assistant
    With that fast a lead on a screw of 1/2" dia. I envision a poor end result. Have you considered using a ball screw and ball-nut for the fast lead with a larger diameter screw. Your trying a very fast transverse on a standard 1/2" dia. screw and nut.

    Good Luck
    Roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by mTeryk View Post
    Reverse that. Feeding in the compound, when set parallel to Z, will adjust timing.

    Good idea to use a dial indicator to track the location of the compound. That way you can move back and forth between threads without worrying about backlash, which is useful for ensuring all threads finish at the same depth.

    Teryk



    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    Good catch, I'd amend my post but it won't let me.

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    Form a thread using acetel. This is getting into home machinist territory though...

    Making lead screw nuts

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    Quote Originally Posted by crrmeyer View Post
    Form a thread using acetel. This is getting into home machinist territory though...

    Making lead screw nuts
    Or backwoods shade tree blacksmithing.

    Yah but.. "babysitting" an idled Copper mine? Prolly not right in down town Sidney, Ohio or any other machine tool cradle of the universe, is it?



    So "home shopish" essentially IS wot it IS, ain't it?

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    A 1/2" tap with a 1/2"lead, I can't imagine it would work very well without a lot of axial force, almost half way between tapping and broaching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illinoyance View Post
    A 1/2" tap with a 1/2"lead, I can't imagine it would work very well without a lot of axial force, almost half way between tapping and broaching.
    Yah sort-kinda wish yah could MILL it ....much like cutting a Helical GEAR, actually.

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    5 start 1/2"-10 thread not going to happen with a tap or manual machine. with a cnc it would be tough. Ive done thousands of 3 start 1/2" bodies for mating 3 start 1/2" lead screws we used to make on the thread grinders back in the early 90's for the semiconductor industry. they wanted a 5 start we laughed then a 4 start but there was vibration issues, when it was all settled it was a 3 start, then we had to modify the tooling for it. we cut the bodies on 06 and heat treated it then lapped the bodies to the screws for final fit. we also had to cut out the root rad in the bodies with a modified tool. if I recall we used small thin bit i.d threading tools then modified them for relief. The thin bit thread tools allow for alot of depth and yet still was able to back out of the part with out hitting the minor.
    after the 1st 50 we made the bodies pretty fast,
    I got a couple of them assembled strews around here there pretty cool.
    buy them and modify them if you can find them.

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    IF YOU MUST THREAD THE NUTS WITH A THREADING BIT IN A BORRING BAR. You will need an NC lathe unless your manual lathe will cut 2 threads per inch.If you do have such a manual lathe,practice and see how fast you can engage and disengage your half nut at around 200 rpm OR plan on threading from the head stock towards the tail stock with the halfnut engaged BEFORE you start you spindle. If you use an NC lathe ,practice on an external thread on a soft piece of aluminum to see exactly how much past the front and back of you nut the lathe needs to accelerate and de-accelerate.BEWARE NC lathes appear to stop and start threading instantly ,NOT SO. This means that your threading bar needs to go somewhat deeper or else you will have a partial druncken thread in your nut. BEWARE ,this distance CHANGES WITH THE LATHE RPM. I could go on and on.Edwin Dirnbeck


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