1951 Ford flathead and unleaded fuel?

Greg White · Sep 18, 2017

So am I worried to much or will it be fine to run her on what sold now a days?
are addatives needed?
I ran one daily in the mid 70s,never a hiccup, BUT, i didnt think as much then.
wat say you men?

1951 M3 Mercury truck barn find from the plains of Canada,just north of N.Dakota is what I drug home,
she's a runner!
Thanks for your thoughts men.
Gw

Limy Sami · Sep 18, 2017

It depends on whether it's got valve seat inserts in the block, ......what condition they're in and how much you're going to drive it.

Assuming (dangerous I know) no valve seat inserts are fitted, and the CI seats and valves are in good condition,(simple compression check) ...and ''a few hundred'' miles a year, I'd use a lead replacement additive and run it until it HAS to come apart.

moonlight machine · Sep 18, 2017

Greg White said:
So am I worried to much or will it be fine to run her on what sold now a days?
are addatives needed?
I ran one daily in the mid 70s,never a hiccup, BUT, i didnt think as much then.
wat say you men?

1951 M3 Mercury truck barn find from the plains of Canada,just north of N.Dakota is what I drug home,
she's a runner!
Thanks for your thoughts men.
Gw

It'l be fine, you won't be running it hard will you? Run it till it needs seats then put them in. Probably go 50,000 miles or more before it needs them. Or not in our lifetime! where is the photo?

Jim Williams · Sep 18, 2017

Unleaded gasoline was available back then, and some people ran it regularly without incident. Has more been made of the benefits of tetraethyl lead than actually exists?

cowboy204 · Sep 18, 2017

The old gas had more lead in it. that acted as a lube for valves. If you have harden seats your in your motor than your in good shape. But you run unleaded gas ( white gas as it was called wayyyyyyyyy back when )

Monarchist · Sep 18, 2017

Limy Sami said:
It depends on whether it's got valve seat inserts in the block, ......what condition they're in and how much you're going to drive it.

Assuming (dangerous I know) no valve seat inserts are fitted, and the CI seats and valves are in good condition,(simple compression check) ...and ''a few hundred'' miles a year, I'd use a lead replacement additive and run it until it HAS to come apart.

+1 British invention, after all, the L-head / side-valve engine. Sir Harry Ricardo, IIRC.

And per Moonlight's observation ... 50K miles was about when a Ford flathead V8 could benefit from cylinders ridge-reamed, bored, honed, new pistons, rings and bearings fitted in any case.

THEN one could build a 100K-mile engine. They surely didn't leave the factory that way back in the day.

Thanks to "PX" pricing for a GI, my '52 "Customline" 4-Dr was run on pure "STP" rather than motor oil the last 10K of its 113K miles. Even so, above 50-55 MPH, it ventured to toss it out the exhaust pipe still in sealed pint cans...

michiganbuck · Sep 18, 2017

Lead additive at Tractor Supply is what i use for my old tractor..a bit of 2 stroke oil can help but adds a little to compression ratio.. I use a tad 2stk to most of my camp engines..perhaps 400:1. Yes higher compression and one might lose the head gasket

Think harder rings nowadays and modern oil will stop the ridge..so a good rebuild flat head should last much longer..
The good old days a valve job at 70k if your the lucky one.. who needs that?

Fel-Pro makes a good gasket..

johnoder · Sep 18, 2017

I just put in a little "top oil" with the tank of gas - what ever that famous name stuff was......

The "market leader" (means cheapest) Packard in 1930

Ghastly white walls....

Next owner incinerated it in house fire

Newman109 · Sep 18, 2017

Jim Williams said:
Unleaded gasoline was available back then, and some people ran it regularly without incident. Has more been made of the benefits of tetraethyl lead than actually exists?

I cold be wrong (my wife tells me that I'm wrong all of the time) but the only truly unleaded gasoline that I recall from the 1950's was so-called white gas. When the environmental issues came to the fore, I'm sure that you recall that the oil companies began to sell low-lead fuel. Around the early 1970's, unleaded fuel came about.

Tetraethyl lead was the ticket when I had my 1963 340 hp Corvette engine in my 1941 Ford. It was carbureted and had 11.5:1 compression.

I do recall that some of the early Ford and Mercury flatheads had hardened valve seat inserts. Those would be fine with unleaded fuel. The problem would be telling which ones your engine has.

michiganbuck · Sep 18, 2017

We would use white gas to wash a car for painting ..it was less costly than most thinners.. yes enamel and lacquer paints then.. yes often a wet paper rub the same day and prime.

Newman109 · Sep 18, 2017

michiganbuck said:
We would use white gas to wash a car for painting ..it was less costly than most thinners.. yes enamel and lacquer paints then.. yes often a wet paper rub the same day and prime.

Right. We used it for that as well

The only complaint that I have about car restorations nowadays is that the restorers often use modern two-part base paints and then finish up with high gloss clear coat. That's nice and shiny but it certainly doesn't look like Henry Ford's soy bean enamel, which was much more subdued. To each his own. LOL.

Monarchist · Sep 18, 2017

johnoder said:
I just put in a little "top oil" with the tank of gas - what ever that famous name stuff was......

Rislone or Marvel "Mystery oil" (mostly Kerosene, that last one!!) IIRC.

Even so, the Marvel product I still keep handy. That - with shop-rags-over, has done a right decent job of keeping 50 feet of plumber's spring-steel-coil "snake" rust-free for me lo these many years between thankfully infrequent uses.

The "market leader" (means cheapest) Packard in 1930

Ghastly white walls....

Nah. Not so ghastly atall. Kept clean, they were in keeping with the overall style of their era. Very much so!

Same effect on road-wheels of battle tanks and the wheels of Milo Minderbender's bomber-come-smuggler-freighter in the movie version of "Catch 22" is what was OTT!

Next owner incinerated it in house fire

Now that IS tragic!

OTOH.. more "honourable" than a slow death to rust, one supposes?

Modelman · Sep 18, 2017

cowboy204 said:
The old gas had more lead in it. that acted as a lube for valves. If you have harden seats your in your motor than your in good shape. But you run unleaded gas ( white gas as it was called wayyyyyyyyy back when )

White gas is not the same as today's unleaded. Yes, it's true that there is no lead in white gas... but the tetraethyl lead was more than a lubricant, it was also a negative catalyst that retarded ignition, allowing higher compression ratios. Without it, any post WWII engine would knock like crazy. Today the ethanol serves the same purpose to retard ignition, but without the lubricating qualities.

Dennis

bridgedog · Sep 18, 2017

Another concern is the diaphragm in the fuel pump. I recently finished a 1936 Plymouth which I installed a poly tank, Viton needle and seat and sent the pump out to have new guts installed to protect it from E10 fuel. It has hard seats from the factory and with about 7 to 1 compression it run very well on pump regular.

Limy Sami · Sep 18, 2017

johnoder said:
I just put in a little "top oil" with the tank of gas - what ever that famous name stuff was......

The "market leader" (means cheapest) Packard in 1930

Ghastly white walls....

Next owner incinerated it in house fire

Nice wheels, but I can only agree with you on the white walls John, hideous!

Don't know if it was the same as yours but Mecum sold a similar looking Packard (sorry - don't know enough about them) a few weeks back at (I think) Monterrey, .for (to me) an eye watering sum.

PackardV8 · Sep 18, 2017

Begin with a complete ignition tune-up; new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points and condensor. That is necessary before worrying about fuel and fuel systems.

When it's running as well as it can. Start the diagnosis. We don't know the base line; not like it's a new rebuild. This barn find could already have serious exhaust valve recession; or it could have had an easy low mileage/low load life. I'd run a compression and leakdown test. This will tell us much about the condition of rings and valves.

Second, drive it until it requires attention is a YES, NO, MAYBE kind of advice. Going into an old Ford V8 flathead is a real can of worms. I've never seen one which didn't need a rebore and didn't have cracks in some of the valve seats. Often, those with cracks have run a long time without getting into water. Cutting the reliefs for hard seats sometimes does as much damage as improvement; driving in the seats can expand the existing cracks. OTOH, driving one with a recessed leaking exhaust valve can burn a groove across otherwise good metal.

jack vines

michiganbuck · Sep 18, 2017

We had one barn find that started and ran fine.. even had expected Ok oil pressure.. intended to drive it home after checking the oil..before and after the test run of about 7 or ten minuets..after about 6 miles the oil pressure went to zero and it began to knock. Car was not worth a rebuild so went to scrap.. we figured the crank had rusted setting so long and the rust wasted the bearings...at least one...I forgot the make but it was an import..

Had a few with a stuck piston (s)we would pull the head(s). soak the bore with thin oil with tapping each piston with a brass knocker every day.. then after a week or two set a wood knocker to each piston top and give a knock with a small (one hand) sludge hammer..never broke a ring doing this and saved most if not every engine.

Picked up a 54 Pontiac station wagon with leather interior , straight 8 .. think it even had air with a knock..Dad put on a chain and pulled it around the next corner then stopped and pulled off the chain.. What i asked?. You can drive it because it is jut a water pump knock...no it did not leak water just knocked. turned out to be a great car...home as it is just the water pump knocking...

Saw Jay leno with a barn find.. first thing he tore down the engine..

lionelt · Sep 18, 2017

johnoder said:
I just put in a little "top oil" with the tank of gas - what ever that famous name stuff was......

The "market leader" (means cheapest) Packard in 1930

Ghastly white walls....

Next owner incinerated it in house fire

Back in the early 70's they would come in the garage and ask for a gallon of petrol and two shots of Red X

GregSY · Sep 18, 2017

Ethanol does not serve the same purpose, at least not nearly as well.

michiganbuck · Sep 18, 2017

Suppose some we may only have ethanol and cars designed for it...or go all electric..

A guy at last weekend's sports trade show bought three Yahama long RVs to ship to Europe..$20K each.. go figure.. he said he would replace the RV tires with street tires..said they were for hunting (?)
looked like this but even more tricked out with a fancy trunk, lights package and more...
yamaha six seater long rv - Google Search

Yes he liked our hunting blinds but did not buy one... of a few.

1951 Ford flathead and unleaded fuel?

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