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    Default 1st post: New to me Clausing 6913 lathe. Basic Maint. Questions....

    Hey team,

    I'm a 4 year school trained, 20 year career machinist....FINALLY have a lathe in my garage at home now!

    I found the manual for the lathe online... I want to change all the fluids. The manual calls for all these Texaco Blah blah models of oils that I can't find listings for. Don't guess those old oils from the late 60's are still made?

    What should I put in her? The Power feed box, head stock etc? 30 weigh motor oil?

    Much thanks,

    MG

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    I have no cross reference for Texaco Blah oil...very rare indeed, apparently.

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    Maybe if you posted what oils you need a cross reference for (as alluded to by Iwananew10k ) someone would be able to help.

    I personally would not recommend "motor oil" to be used on a machine tool that you want to take good care of, especially not in a gear box. As tools are designed for a certain purpose, so are oils. A non-detergent gear oil or transmission oil would most likely be more appropriate in this case.

    -Ron

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    Do NOT use motor oil in the headstock or apron - though there may be exceptions, generally "motor oil" is designed with detergents that keep particles in suspension, with the intention that they will be filtered out through the oil filter. Instead, use mineral oil (hydraulic oil) - probably ISO 46 or 68 - which allows particles to settle to the bottom and stay there out of the way of causing harm.

    For my old Cincinnati TrayTop, the manual called for an oil / specification that is no longer in use ... but after some digging (probably including one of my first posts here), I cross-referenced it to ISO 46. I've been using it in headstock, gearbox, and apron ever since, and seems to be working well.

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    Default New oil for old lathe

    I have a Clausing 5914, which also has the variable-speed system, which is hydraulically controlled, and caused me a heap of trouble till figured out that I was not using the correct viscosity of Mobile DTE hydraulic fluid. I wrote a saga on the issue, which follows:

    This saga started in 2009, when I was attempting to get the variable-speed drive on my new old Clausing 5914 Lathe to work properly. The mechanical repairs went well enough, but I was never able to properly purge the air from the hydraulic system. At the time, I noticed that whenever I performed the recommended maneuver of pushing the speed control lever past the lowest speed to uncover the purge port, I could hear the upper hydraulic assembly (131-015 Cylinder) aspirating air, so I was just chasing my tail.

    It seemed to me at the time that the Mobil DTE24 hydraulic oil I was using was too thin for the purpose, but DTE24 was what Clausing recommended to replace the original and now obsolete Shell Tellus 27 oil (used in the hydraulic system and the headstock) and DTE25 to replace Tellus 33 (used in the apron gearbox).

    I considered adding an external reservoir to the hydraulic assembly so the distance from port to the free surface of the oil would be long enough that aspiration would be impossible, but never did anything about it. My 5914 has the new rectangular aluminum hydraulic assembly with built-in reservoir, not the older cylindrical steel hydraulic assembly (which has an external reservoir and was my inspiration for adding an external reservoir).

    The story is documented in the <rec.crafts.metalworking> thread "Rebuild Clausing 5914 VS Control Hydraulics" in June 2009:

    Rebuild Clausing 5914 VS Control Hydraulics - DIYbanter

    I returned to the problem in April 2015, intending to add that external reservoir, and so was looking to buy a spare rectangular aluminum assembly. This led to the usual questions about what I intended to do, which elicited a number of useful suggestions from the <[email protected]> list. The thread is titled "Upper VS hydraulic assembly of a 5900-series Clausing lathe sought".

    One of the responders to my questions provided the key clue, that the oil industry had converted to ISO oil viscosity grades, replacing a confusion of names, and Shell had therefore renumbered their Tellus oils.

    My 5914 was (if memory serves) built in 1975, and the manual is dated December 1969, which is well before the transition to ISO Viscosity Grades began, so Tellus 27 and 33 were the pre-ISO designations.

    Now, the new and old Tellus product designations look the same, and it appears that people assumed that Tellus 27 was closest to Tellus 32 and Tellus 33 was closest to Tellus 37, based on the product numbers alone, but it just isn't so -- the units of measure had changed. It's like confusing yards and meters.

    We had in 2009 realized that there was a conflict, but ultimately assumed that Clausing was correct because they were the manufacturer. But they were *not* correct, having fallen into the interpolation trap as well.

    The clue mentioned above is a substitution chart from the transition era: Shell Oil Cross Reference | Liquids | Oils. This chart gave the equivalents of Tellus 27 and 33 as Tellus 46 and 68 respectively, these being named after their ISO Viscosity Grades 46 and 68. These are an entire viscosity grade thicker than the original substitution recommendation from Clausing. DTE24 is ISO 32.

    Did later manual Clausing machine tools with VS drives call out the correct oil?

    Some people use automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) in the hydraulic system, and have no problems. It turns out that at room temperature (20 C, the temperature of the hydraulics in a 5914), the viscosity of ATF III is almost identical to that of ISO 46 hydraulic oil, which explains why ATF III worked.

    So, the bottom line is that one should use a good grade of ISO46 hydraulic oil in the hydraulics and the headstock, and ISO68 in the apron gearbox. This would be Mobil DTE25 and DTE26, Shell Tellus 46 and 68, and so on. Hydraulic oils are commodities, and these are all good.

    I then purchased the thicker grades of hydraulic oil and installed them in the 5914 lathe, an easy but messy job. The effect was dramatic:

    Variable-Speed Hydraulic Control System: It's like night and day. I was for the first time ever able to purge all the air out of the hydraulics in one or two cycles, versus the usual ten or fifteen cycles mentioned in various instruction sets. (I always wondered why Clausing would build a lathe to require any such thing. Now I know what happened.) There was no tendency to aspirate air while bleeding. The VS system now works correctly. DTE25 (ISO VS 46)

    This also explained why sometimes the purge process worked and sometimes it didn't -- ambient temperature was the reason. In cold weather, the oil thickened and aspiration was tolerable. In warm weather, the oil thinned, and aspiration was unavoidable.

    Headstock: With the new, thicker oil, the lathe runs far quieter. This was a welcome surprise. DTE25 (ISO VS 46)

    Apron: No obvious difference. But one should change the apron oil from time to time. DTE26 (ISO VS 68)

    The old oil in headstock and apron was a shade or two darker brown than the new oil, but was otherwise in reasonably good condition. Aside from the air aspiration problems and the noise from the headstock, the thinner oil was workable.

    I purchased the oil from McMaster-Carr, who charged me $26 per gallon. MSC wanted $37 per gallon, so it pays to shop around.


    Joe Gwinn

    20 April 2015
    Last edited by Joe Gwinn; 01-04-2019 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Add URL brackets.

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    Correct oils and grease listed in free download of manual

    http://manuals.chudov.com/Clausing/C...hes-Manual.pdf

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    Apparently 4 years of schooling didn't teach anything about ringing
    up either the shell lubricant engineering line, nor Mobile's
    hotline.....

    Blah, Blah, Balther, Blah Blah.

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    I have a 6900 series Clausing lathe
    Use
    20 WT Non-detergent oil in the carriage,quick change box and the headstock

    I get mine at a Farm Supply Store.
    The oil is clear like a mineral oil.'

    I talked to Clausing Rep 20 years ago when I got the lathe.
    The 5900 series mentioned in earlier posts have Hydralic systems for speed control and are not the same as the 6900's
    However, hydraulic oils are good as long as they are not too thin.
    Rich

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    I have a 6900 series and the manual calls for SAE 20 in the headstock, spindle and gear train. That is readily available from online and local suppliers (Mobil DTE Heavy/Medium ISO VG 68, SAE 20). My manual calls for SAE 90 hypoid in the carriage and gear box (I would think GL-4 would be better than GL-5).

    However, I cannot refute Joe Gwinn's response. His recommendation would be Mobil Medium ISO 46 -- that's assuming I read it right, which is a big assumption. However, my 6900 series does not use a hydraulic variable speed system and the variable speed system shown in my manual is not hydraulically controlled. Perhaps that explains the difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by medsar View Post
    However, my 6900 series does not use a hydraulic variable speed system and the variable speed system shown in my manual is not hydraulically controlled. Perhaps that explains the difference?
    Your lathe will not be "6900" - that is the series, not the specific lathe model. The 00 part will be something other than zero. I'm pretty sure that 6913 is variable speed, but there is a listing of features by model numbers somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Gwinn View Post
    Your lathe will not be "6900" - that is the series, not the specific lathe model
    How do I say this...if you would please reference my unedited post that you quoted, just to the right of '6900' is 'series'. I do mention that it is a '6900 series' lathe and not a '6900 model'. I do think it is correct to refer to a lathe by the series since the manual is the same for all lathes in that series (according to my manual)

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    Quote Originally Posted by medsar View Post
    How do I say this...if you would please reference my unedited post that you quoted, just to the right of '6900' is 'series'. I do mention that it is a '6900 series' lathe and not a '6900 model'. I do think it is correct to refer to a lathe by the series since the manual is the same for all lathes in that series (according to my manual)
    Oh, correct. I was reacting to the poster who claimed that the lathe did not have a variable-speed (Reeves) drive - the full model number will tell.

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    Oh snap. I hope you took no offense to my post because none was intended (hence my debate of how to say it without sounding snarky). I learned a bunch from your post about your search for the right oil for your lathe.

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    Thanks for the Good information posted above.

    Pretty surprised at the abrasivness of some.

    Yeah my 6913 is a hydro. variable speed. Thanks again. Anyone know where to look for a taper attachment? [As in a Telescopic Taper Attachment for this Clausing 6913 Engine Lathe referenced in THIS OP for you snarky ones.]

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    QT?[Pretty surprised at the abrasivness of some.]

    *Don't let that bother you one bit...

    While you are looking for a taper attachment you might look on youtube amd find some handy guys have fudged one up...

    Buck

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonCeret Gunsmit View Post
    Anyone know where to look for a taper attachment?
    They come up from time to time on ebay. They are not cheap. Be aware that there are two kinds, telescoping and non-telescoping, with non-interchangable parts, so some research is needed to ensure that you get a complete set of one or the other.

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    Thanks so much!

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    QT?[Pretty surprised at the abrasivness of some.]

    *Don't let that bother you one bit...

    While you are looking for a taper attachment you might look on youtube amd find some handy guys have fudged one up...

    Buck
    ""QT"" means?


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