2.5" facemill on straight shank arbor?
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default 2.5" facemill on straight shank arbor?

    Looking for opinions on the legitimacy of running a 2.5" toolmex 45deg fm on a straight shank 3/4 to 3/4 arbor on a 5hp continuous 7.5hp peak spindle.

    Issue is this old Kitamura is 35 taper and all the holders I can find are 1.25" arbor(have one here) and all the face mills I see are 4"+ with that arbor size and this mill really can't handle that(both carrousel and power/rigidity)

    I purchased a toolmex 2.5" fm with the idea to either machine out arbor hole to work with 1.25" tool holder, make an adaptor to connect them(basically an extension,) or make new tool holder with 3/4 arbor; however, have been looking into these straight shank arbors which would go into a solid endmill tool holder(weldon style)

    would this be asking too much of the tooling?

    regards,

    Lock

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,137
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lock View Post
    would this be asking too much of the tooling?
    If you plan to bury the load meter? Absolutely!
    Otherwise, it isn't about max spindle power, it's about how hard you task it.



    You surely ain't the first person who ever needed this!
    Just "acquire" the proper arbour. Or facemill. Or both.

    Lots of folks can make them for you."Somebody" already does. More than one.
    Facemills or arbours.

    Toolmex is not the only game in town. Thank God in her infinite wisdom.

    Seek harder.
    Monkey-patch less.


  3. Likes Mtndew liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    6,614
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7049
    Likes (Received)
    3925

    Default

    BT35 is pretty common stuff. I sold a BT35 Kitamura not long ago and had several face mill arbors for it.

    If you really can't buy one, modify the holder you have to be what you need. That seems fairly simple. They aren't very hard.

  5. Likes stephen thomas, eKretz liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    you can find all the 1.25" holders you want, it's finding a cutter that fits an arbor that big that is small enough to work with a spindle this size... I have changed a drill chuck tool holder (jacobs 3 to b20 iirc) was a lyndex holder and it didn't take very long to get through the case hard... fine for low speed random drill stuff but not sure I want to try and do it for a facemill holder and also getting that to run as true as is necessary would be fun...

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    If you plan to bury the load meter? Absolutely!
    Otherwise, it isn't about max spindle power, it's about how hard you task it.



    You surely ain't the first person who ever needed this!
    Just "acquire" the proper arbour. Or facemill. Or both.

    Lots of folks can make them for you."Somebody" already does. More than one.
    Facemills or arbours.

    Toolmex is not the only game in town. Thank God in her infinite wisdom.

    Seek harder.
    Monkey-patch less.

    I implore you to find me a 2.5" fm with an 1.25" arbor, I have one and it's a pos... don't think they make anything less than 4" with 1.25" arbor. I bought the toolmex for cheap to modify just looking for easier alternative to making parts go together like this with sub .0003 tir

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,137
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lock View Post
    you can find all the 1.25" holders you want, it's finding a cutter that fits an arbor that big that is small enough to work with a spindle this size... I have changed a drill chuck tool holder (jacobs 3 to b20 iirc) was a lyndex holder and it didn't take very long to get through the case hard... fine for low speed random drill stuff but not sure I want to try and do it for a facemill holder and also getting that to run as true as is necessary would be fun...
    I.. can "find" just about ANYTHING I want. And a whole lot more I wouldn't wish on even an enemy!



    OTHER FOLKS find BT35 arbours and the milling-cutters they need every day of every week. They are earning a crust wit' 'em, not moping about over "can't".

    I Left My Love/US Cavalry Song-The Horse Soldiers/John Ford- Les Cavaliers (En/Fr Lyrics) - YouTube

    If you have internet connectivity good enough to come here and whine?

    You have internet connectivity good enough to go elsewhere and FIND.

    JFDI

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    I.. can "find" just about ANYTHING I want. And a whole lot more I wouldn't wish on even an enemy!



    OTHER FOLKS find BT35 arbours and the milling-cutters they need every day of every week. They are earning a crust wit' 'em, not moping about over "can't".

    I Left My Love/US Cavalry Song-The Horse Soldiers/John Ford- Les Cavaliers (En/Fr Lyrics) - YouTube

    If you have internet connectivity good enough to come here and whine?

    You have internet connectivity good enough to go elsewhere and FIND.

    JFDI
    ok dude, clearly you have no idea about what is or isn't available for them... hell lyndex doesn't even make stuff for them anymore. literally the only holder other than 1.25" that displays during searching the entire internet is a 4" projection 3/4" arbor that sold on ebay years ago. Not here whining, looking for ideas that are less annoying that making the entire gd holder which I very well may do and sell since there isn't ANYTHING AVAILABLE(just like kitamura studs which I already made a run of).... as for folks making stuff I have only asked one manufacturer (maritool) about helping me and both times they were so disinterested in this problem and doing what there website says they do I doubt I will ever have money for them... get of your high horse

    you clearly are of no use to the topic or you would say oh yea lookup jimbob jo eff he has loads of tools or manufactures this obsolete tooling... far as I know the only new tooling is coming out for the router croud which I doubt uses face mills

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    BT35 is pretty common stuff. I sold a BT35 Kitamura not long ago and had several face mill arbors for it.

    If you really can't buy one, modify the holder you have to be what you need. That seems fairly simple. They aren't very hard.
    the big reason other than cutting through the case hard I see is the thread on the 1.25" is 16mm so by the time I would get to .75 I wouldn't have much wall left...

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    11,103
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    665
    Likes (Received)
    8877

    Default

    Unsure the question,
    This size cutter on a .750 shank up tight at this hp not a problem at all.
    Add that this a 45 cutter and gosh easy.
    We can do max depth and feed vs torque at the interface as power available but I see this as easy.
    Want fun, swing a 16 tooth 8 inch dia, steel body cutter on a 3/4 shank in a B-port collet.
    Bob

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    6,614
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7049
    Likes (Received)
    3925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lock View Post
    you can find all the 1.25" holders you want, it's finding a cutter that fits an arbor that big that is small enough to work with a spindle this size... I have changed a drill chuck tool holder (jacobs 3 to b20 iirc) was a lyndex holder and it didn't take very long to get through the case hard... fine for low speed random drill stuff but not sure I want to try and do it for a facemill holder and also getting that to run as true as is necessary would be fun...
    Why do you think it needs to be hard?

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    Why do you think it needs to be hard?
    ? It's somewhat hard from one of the largest tool manufactures in the world... It's kinda a moot point though as the tool holder would be less than 1/8" thick by the time it got to .750

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Unsure the question,
    This size cutter on a .750 shank up tight at this hp not a problem at all.
    Add that this a 45 cutter and gosh easy.
    We can do max depth and feed vs torque at the interface as power available but I see this as easy.
    Want fun, swing a 16 tooth 8 inch dia, steel body cutter on a 3/4 shank in a B-port collet.
    Bob
    not concerned about 3/4 arbor size, it's just not a common size in the used market and this taper is uncommon already so locating a used 3/4 arbor has been fruitless so far... the question was would using a straight shank facemill arbor in a solid endmill toolholder have the a$$ to hold up to this spindle without slipping etc. I have my doubts whether it would be up to the task but thought id ask here for other input. This is the style holder I'm asking about: Eagle Rock Straight Shank Shell Mill Arbor, A1-36-0750-1000 - SMA-400 - Penn Tool Co., Inc

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    buried in one of command tooling's (last bt35 maker?) they have part numbers for 3/4, 1 and 1 1/4 holders. I will give them a call in AM and report with pricing and or availability for future reference.

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    22,137
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lock View Post
    you can find all the 1.25" holders you want, it's finding a cutter that fits an arbor that big that is small enough to work with a spindle this size... I have changed a drill chuck tool holder (jacobs 3 to b20 iirc) was a lyndex holder and it didn't take very long to get through the case hard... fine for low speed random drill stuff but not sure I want to try and do it for a facemill holder and also getting that to run as true as is necessary would be fun...
    You were talking about introducing "stacking" error, right out of the box, when you came through PM's door fretting over loading / holding power?

    Weldon-style side locks are right GOOD.. but I ain't met one YET as true as a bespoke arbor can be. Let alone a factory-balanced integral mount.

    And you still have THAT TIR - face or shell mill to arbour - before you even insert that straight shank into the side-lock. And clamp it?

    Sub three tenths you expect? Get TF real!

    I doo this s**t.

    Chandler-Duplex and such are on straight shanks.

    But I'm all-manual, NO tool-changer or karussel/magazine, have no deadlines but my own... native 40-taper collets.. ER-40, TG-100, Weldons on 40-taper.. Weldons on PDQ-Marlin to 40-taper. #9 B&S native collets AND side-locks and PDQ-Marlins.. with side-locks... ... And a few more odds and sods.

    The best of it bought new. From Frank Mari. So VERY well made it is cheaper than Chicom at the end of its working life.

    You run a "revenue" shop. You want that Kitamura to pay the bills?

    Pay attention to those (not I) who have RUN them for their crust.

    Give it solid load-and-forget tooling that can deliver consistent results, first time, every time, all the time.

    Not retiree/hobbyist monkey-patched fiddle-f**kery scrounged-up "used" and Chicom-cheap even before it was wore-out ....and begging for a chance to show you what a crash and downtime does to your ability to earn that crust.

    You think that's useless advice?

    Explain, then why I can afford Maritool's best ... because it is WORTH what is asked... and you struggle to even understand the business, let alone pay for what you need.

    When Job ONE was to make MONEY? I tooled my shops to do exactly that.
    They did. I did. I even got to keep some of it!

    Old horse, great tooling? Run it sanely, you eat and grow.

    Great horse, s**t tooling? Unrealistic expectations? All you do is s**t your "savings" away.

    Try it the right way 'round. Tool well. Run what you HAVE.
    Not what you only WISH you had.

    BT35 has become a PITA to tool?

    BFD. Replace the machine.

    They pay for themselves, after all.

  17. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    You were talking about introducing "stacking" error, right out of the box, when you came through PM's door fretting over loading / holding power?

    Weldon-style side locks are right GOOD.. but I ain't met one YET as true as a bespoke arbor can be. Let alone a factory-balanced integral mount.

    And you still have THAT TIR - face or shell mill to arbour - before you even insert that straight shank into the side-lock. And clamp it?

    Sub three tenths you expect? Get TF real!

    I doo this s**t.

    Chandler-Duplex and such are on straight shanks.

    But I'm all-manual, NO tool-changer or karussel/magazine, have no deadlines but my own... native 40-taper collets.. ER-40, TG-100, Weldons on 40-taper.. Weldons on PDQ-Marlin to 40-taper. #9 B&S native collets AND side-locks and PDQ-Marlins.. with side-locks... ... And a few more odds and sods.

    The best of it bought new. From Frank Mari. So VERY well made it is cheaper than Chicom at the end of its working life.

    You run a "revenue" shop. You want that Kitamura to pay the bills?

    Pay attention to those (not I) who have RUN them for their crust.

    Give it solid load-and-forget tooling that can deliver consistent results, first time, every time, all the time.

    Not retiree/hobbyist monkey-patched fiddle-f**kery scrounged-up "used" and Chicom-cheap even before it was wore-out ....and begging for a chance to show you what a crash and downtime does to your ability to earn that crust.

    You think that's useless advice?

    Explain, then why I can afford Maritool's best ... because it is WORTH what is asked... and you struggle to even understand the business, let alone pay for what you need.

    When Job ONE was to make MONEY? I tooled my shops to do exactly that.
    They did. I did. I even got to keep some of it!

    Old horse, great tooling? Run it sanely, you eat and grow.

    Great horse, s**t tooling? Unrealistic expectations? All you do is s**t your "savings" away.

    Try it the right way 'round. Tool well. Run what you HAVE.
    Not what you only WISH you had.

    BT35 has become a PITA to tool?

    BFD. Replace the machine.

    They pay for themselves, after all.
    You have absolutely nothing of value to this convo so kindly find someone else to troll.

  18. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Command tooling is out, They don't have there fixturing anymore and apparently "custom tooling" to them means modifying something they do day to day, I assume this is the same with Mari...

  19. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Nikken Lyndex is no go as well, 1 1.25" pcs left and no interest in making a true custom piece

  20. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    6,545
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2351
    Likes (Received)
    2542

    Default

    I would try Mari at least. Explain the situation and maybe he'll help you out. Failing that, I'm with Garwood, buy any used adapter with enough meat in it and make what you need. Pilot end doesn't need to be hardened if you're not going to be swapping tools a lot.

    Oh, and don't mind Thermite, he does so enjoy a good confounding blather.

  21. Likes Gobo liked this post
  22. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,050
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    756
    Likes (Received)
    1246

    Default

    This is the most entertaining thread today. So far.

  23. Likes Lock liked this post
  24. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    I would try Mari at least. Explain the situation and maybe he'll help you out. Failing that, I'm with Garwood, buy any used adapter with enough meat in it and make what you need. Pilot end doesn't need to be hardened if you're not going to be swapping tools a lot.

    Oh, and don't mind Thermite, he does so enjoy a good confounding blather.
    I have twice, I assume custom to them means modifying existing stuff just like command... Mari was the first folks I called asking about this issue... Yea I figured such... anyone with the kinda post count he has over the same timeline doesn't have alot going on in life

  25. Likes Gobo liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •