4' T12 LED replacement lamps

moonlight machine · Feb 29, 2020

Was poking around on line, found 4' LED no ballast replacement bulbs. they are T 8. They should work in an old T 12 fixture without a ballast Correct? they are 17 watt 2200 lumens 4000K for 4.50 each. Is this what I want for my shop. How many watts, lumens are normal T12 lamps? is 4000K the correct color for a machine shop? Is 4.50 a good price?

g-coder05 · Feb 29, 2020

I tried the 4000k and the color seemed to make my eyes strain to read mic's. After a few weeks I started getting headache so I swapped a few to 5000K Nautral Daylight and it made a world of difference. And if they are any good, Yes, $4.50 a pop is a steal. I think I paid just over $40 each for mine.

Oh, And check your shunt style.

aarongough · Feb 29, 2020

Yeah I much prefer 5000K or 5600K for shop work as well. 4000K is too warm!

Gordon Heaton · Feb 29, 2020

I'll be the odd guy: 4500K ideal for me, 5000K max.

The trouble with all the cheap LEDs is the driver/power supply. When they advertise a 50,000hr life, its for the LEDs themselves which rarely go bad. The aforementioned power supplies crap out long before the LEDiodes do.

moonlight machine · Feb 29, 2020

g-coder05 said:
I tried the 4000k and the color seemed to make my eyes strain to read mic's. After a few weeks I started getting headache so I swapped a few to 5000K Nautral Daylight and it made a world of difference. And if they are any good, Yes, $4.50 a pop is a steal. I think I paid just over $40 each for mine.

Oh, And check your shunt style.

What is shunt style? They have 5000K for 4.50 each as well. Case lots of 25 for 4.50 each.

PeteM · Feb 29, 2020

Personally, I prefer around 4000-4500K with a decent "CRI" (Color Rendering Index). Seems its a personal thing - lots of people prefer 5000K+ and some even as "warm" as 3000K which is close to a regular old tungsten filament bulb. Some of the cheaper LED lamps have a pretty spikey spectrum, which may or may not bother you. Problem is trying to match things like paint colors. If the maker doesn't spec the CRI, chances are it's not all that good.

Another difference between the tubes is the distribution of LEDS inside. Some can be rotated to get max light, some are fixed but do well. Others will show a sort of Xmas tree effect with individual LEDS showing through even a diffuser.

My lamps are in 3 banks of 4 fixtures - each fixture with four 4' lamps. Unless I'm doing really fiddly work, only half the lamps need to be on to have plenty of light. I'd try a 4000K and a 5000K bulb and see what you like. As far as brightness goes, you're almost sure to get as much or more light.

While it's possible for some LEDS to pop in without changing the ballast, as you probably know it makes much more sense in terms of energy and reliability to bypass the old ballast.

Bill D · Feb 29, 2020

If possible get the style where power comes in from both ends. If it comes in one end only then the tombstone has to be the right kind and you have to orient the bulb wehn installing it.
Bil lD

moonlight machine · Feb 29, 2020

PeteM said:
Personally, I prefer around 4000-4500K with a decent "CRI" (Color Rendering Index). Seems its a personal thing - lots of people prefer 5000K+ and some even as "warm" as 3000K which is close to a regular old tungsten filament bulb. Some of the cheaper LED lamps have a pretty spikey spectrum, which may or may not bother you. Problem is trying to match things like paint colors. If the maker doesn't spec the CRI, chances are it's not all that good.

Another difference between the tubes is the distribution of LEDS inside. Some can be rotated to get max light, some are fixed but do well. Others will show a sort of Xmas tree effect with individual LEDS showing through even a diffuser.

My lamps are in 3 banks of 4 fixtures - each fixture with four 4' lamps. Unless I'm doing really fiddly work, only half the lamps need to be on to have plenty of light. I'd try a 4000K and a 5000K bulb and see what you like. As far as brightness goes, you're almost sure to get as much or more light.

While it's possible for some LEDS to pop in without changing the ballast, as you probably know it makes much more sense in terms of energy and reliability to bypass the old ballast.

The cri on these lamps is 80. They are listed as "double ended", I assume that means power goes in both ends. The beam angle is 210 degrees. They have a 5 year warranty.

PeteM · Feb 29, 2020

The double-ended is better IMO. The power on each end connects to both pins - so less chance of a bad connection.

80 CRI isn't bad. Above 90 is good. If you have to do something like match paint colors, you'll want at least a few higher CRI bulbs, or add some tungsten illumination in one area. If you just want bright lights, 80 is good enough.

Lamps are cheap enough that if you're not happy, you could just spend a bit more. FWIW, Amazon is a decent place to buy these. Prices as cheap or cheaper. Returns if you're not happy. Sometimes enough real reviews to have some assurance you'll be happy.

After you change one fixture over and have the process down for your configuration, it goes pretty quick.

Gordon Heaton · Feb 29, 2020

Bill D said:
If possible get the style where power comes in from both ends. If it comes in one end only then the tombstone has to be the right kind and you have to orient the bulb wehn installing it.
Bil lD

moonlight machine said:
. . .They are listed as "double ended", I assume that means power goes in both ends. . .

However... We bought some T8 HO units for evaluation that were billed as 'either/or' with regard to keeping or dumping the ballast. If you wired those fixtures to bypass the ballast, the tube MUST be inserted in the proper orientation or you end up with a dead short in that fixture! (When keeping the ballast, power came in both ends. When bypassing the ballast, the two legs both came in on one end.) The tube end and fixture both had to be marked, and instructions printed on the fixture to avoid screw-ups.

We did not choose those for the rest of the units!

PeteM · Feb 29, 2020

Gordon Heaton said:
However...

Guess it depends on what the maker considers "double ended." See the diagram lower on the page for this listing (not a recommendation of that brand - just 1st diagram I saw):

Hykolity 20 Pack 4FT T8 T12 LED Tube, Type A+B, Plug-Play or Ballast Bypass, Single-Ended or Double-Ended Connection, 18W=40W, 2400LM, 5000K Daylight, T10 Tube Light, 120-277V, UL and DLC Listed - - Amazon.com

The ones I ended up using (after having some that wired from just one end) basically didn't care how the tube was inserted and powered (if one so chose) both of the clips at each end. Can get a bit confusing, this first one you hook up.

EPAIII · Mar 1, 2020

T8 and T12 refer to Tubular and 8/8" or 12/8" diameter. The pin spacing and diameter is exactly the same so they both will fit in the same fixtures. The ballasts were different: the T8s were supposed to be more efficient or something. If you are getting a T8 size LED it will fit in either a T8 or a T12 fixture. And if you are removing the ballasts, then the only things that matter are the Voltage and the physical fit.

I purchased 40 Sunco LED 4' lamps on the internet. They are the Sunco brand and they are advertised as working with or without a ballast. They are more efficient without so I removed all my ballasts and rewired the fixtures to suit the LED bulbs. I found that I could replace four of the old fluorescent bulbs with three or in some cases only two of the LED bulbs. My house and shop now has 39 of them installed for about two years and I have not had a single problem. They are great. They did cost a bit more than the stuff available at the local home supply stores.

Larry Dickman · Mar 1, 2020

I got the 4000k and really like them. One other point, the better quality bulbs will have a glass enclosure. The el cheepos are plastic, which, from what I've been told, will start to turn yellow.

Gordon Heaton · Mar 1, 2020

EPAIII said:
. . .The pin spacing and diameter is exactly the same so they both will fit in the same fixtures. . . .

Not always. The fixtures I referred to in post #10 use an entirely different connector. They are T8, and they are also HO (high-output) and they are not compatible with any other style. They are common in high-bay lighting.

moonlight machine · Mar 1, 2020

Gordon Heaton said:
Not always. The fixtures I referred to in post #10 use an entirely different connector. They are T8, and they are also HO (high-output) and they are not compatible with any other style. They are common in high-bay lighting.

All the HO fixtures use an odd connection between the lamp and fixture. I made the mistake of buying 8' HOs for my shop addition a few years ago. Bulbs and ballasts last about as long as flash bulbs! Can you even buy a flash bulb anymore? Remember flash cubes? Millennials have no idea what they are......Damn I'm old......

Garwood · Mar 1, 2020

I've bought a ton of Hyperikon brand T8 and T5 5000K bulbs and have been really happy for a few years now.

4000k is dim/dirty/dingy yellow in comparison.

Scruffy887 · Mar 1, 2020

My local variety store changed to all strip LEDs a few years ago. Holy crap! First time I went in the owner said he thinks they save money, but maybe cause cancer. I knew he was joking but also knew it was freekin bright in there. LEDs do have an initial very high brightness, do not notice it anymore.

paulymorph · Mar 1, 2020

I had 2 - 4ft double T8 fluorescent fixtures in my garage shop for past 20 years, I added some additional lamps here and there over the past few years but always wanted more light. Recently I tried the Toggled replacement bulbs from Home Depot on a whim. The instructions seems very straight forward. Of course my fixture needed to use the replacement lamp holder that came with the lights but... They didn't fit. To their credit, Toggled would have sent me a different set but I didn't want to mess with it and wait. Instead I had seen a number of Youtube vids of light upgrades in shops using LED fixtures from Barrina (sold on Amazon).

Like the others on Youtube, I can't begin to tell you how big of a difference they made. I bought a set of 6 - 4 ft. fixtures. They output 5000 lm at 5000 K light temp. They could not be any easier to install (2 metal clips directly into drywall or wood). Because you can daisy chain up to 6 strips, I was able to place them in a grid on my ceiling which is simply amazing for light coverage and reduced shadows. They come with an abundance of connection options. So much so that you'll end up having quite a bit of cabling left over. The set I got averaged $14/light but there are many other options for length, lumens and temperature.

You won't be sorry.

Barrina LED Shop Light, 40W 5000LM 5000K, 4FT Integrated Fixture, V Shape, T8 Light Tube, Daylight White, Clear Cover, Hight Output, Strip Lights Bulb for Garage Warehouse Workshop Basement (Pack of 6) - - Amazon.com

Ben · Mar 2, 2020

I have modified about 50 fixtures at work. I use the bypass bulbs in all my fixtures 4' & 8' I buy the 5000k bulbs. All my 4'ers are single ended because that is what I started with, I don't want a mix because if some else changes bulb they would get the right one. I bought a box of non-shunted tombstones to replace the shunted ones in the T-8 fixtures. I would not buy any of the bulbs that use a ballast, if you don't eliminate the ballast what have you accomplished? You still have the same issue with the ballast going bad. I haven't bought any fixtures just convert the ones I have. Would never go back to florescent tubes, the best light and they start instantly when cold.

FredC · Mar 2, 2020

With all the 4000K and 5000K recommendations here, I have to say if that some people can get by with 2800 to 3200K lights. Every bulb in my shop and house are in the 2800 to 3200K range. I would not last 5 minutes in a shop with the hotter bulbs without getting a migraine.

4' T12 LED replacement lamps

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