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Advice on buying safe steel D1-8 Faceplate/Driver

Cannonmn

Stainless
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Jun 25, 2016
Looking to buy a safe steel D1-8 faceplate for 17” Colchester-Clausing M8000 lathe. My choices are a bit limited because I can’t use any cast iron, the lathe can do 1600 rpm and it is easy to set the speed dials wrong and get that speed, so I won’t consider cast iron. One problem with the offerings online is that the sellers don’t seem to put whether steel or cast iron in their descriptions. Another option may be to buy a larger D1-8 chuck adapter Then put a steel faceplate on it, if buying a complete unit doesn’t happen.

4 example, here’s an offering from a seller I know, I can probably get good answers about tha item when he returns. I don’t like the paint overspray on the studs but easy to fix. How would you tell whether this is cast iron or steel?
D1-8 MOUNT 15" T-SLOT FACE PLATE CLAUSING COLCHESTER | eBay

Advice?
 
Looking to buy a safe steel D1-8 faceplate for 17” Colchester-Clausing M8000 lathe. My choices are a bit limited because I can’t use any cast iron, the lathe can do 1600 rpm and it is easy to set the speed dials wrong and get that speed, so I won’t consider cast iron. One problem with the offerings online is that the sellers don’t seem to put whether steel or cast iron in their descriptions. Another option may be to buy a larger D1-8 chuck adapter Then put a steel faceplate on it, if buying a complete unit doesn’t happen.

4 example, here’s an offering from a seller I know, I can probably get good answers about tha item when he returns. I don’t like the paint overspray on the studs but easy to fix. How would you tell whether this is cast iron or steel?
D1-8 MOUNT 15" T-SLOT FACE PLATE CLAUSING COLCHESTER | eBay

Advice?

Are you sure you have your common-sense engaged?

1600 RPM isn't even a bad joke to a 10EE or a Cazeneuve at 2500, 3,300, 4,000, and even higher.

HALF that you'd shit yerself, "bare faceplate/chuck", on 50" worth of large lathe off the aggressive Mike Foxtrot seeking to taxi for the active runway, launch and claw for altitude ... so as to strafe and bomb the machine-hall.

What yah DO is mark any chuck not ALREADY face-marked with the maker-recommended max RPM. Decent new ones ARE so marked. Even 90-dollar Chicom "San Ou" carry that limit. "BIG swing is LOW speed. Small swing is high(er) speed"

So .. ta da.. see that you respect whatever the limit is on whatever yah have, mounted, collets to monster chucks.. because... on a 4-J most of all, the WORK alone can be seriously out of dynamic balance.

Lathe turning is not REALLY "switch-on and go". It only looks dirt-simple.

Somebody else has to do the heavy-thinking.

The lathe is a marvelous servant, and a s**t-indifferent master.

It neither gives a damn nor can be bothered to take prisoners.
 
My 13 X 40 nameless lathe has a top speed of 2,000 rpm. It's clearly marked on the front panel and it's necessary to shift into that speed in order to use it. In the 25 years I've owned the machine, I've never once use that speed other than to test it once. That was enough. It scared the hell out of me. LOL.
 
Long ago Hendey made this to go to 5000. You don't really think they eschewed cast iron, do you?

Bul pg 1.jpgBul pg 2.jpgBul pg 3.jpgBul pg 4.jpg

And how about the tens of millions of cast iron automobile flywheels - every one of which went past 2000 every day
 
My 13 X 40 nameless lathe has a top speed of 2,000 rpm. It's clearly marked on the front panel and it's necessary to shift into that speed in order to use it. In the 25 years I've owned the machine, I've never once use that speed other than to test it once. That was enough. It scared the hell out of me. LOL.

It's all "relative'. 5,500 RPM on a Hardinge manufacturing lathe special-ordered with an 8,000 RPM top was just boring shift work making #000-124 screws outta what resembled stainless WIRE as had to be run in full bore-liner and short lengths.

Same again cutting the 46" mount on the body of a 100 Ton crane for its turntable bearing where SIX RPM was stressful as to executing all-manual tool-advance at just the right time.

I did say "relative"?
 
Long ago Hendey made this to go to 5000. You don't really think they eschewed cast iron, do you?

That's a canard.

Hendey never "chewed" Iron in ANY manner. Inhaled it or swallowed it WHOLE, rather.

:)

Sanity check. A CI 8" 4-J rated for 1500 RPM I'd not want to run at over 25% of that with work in it.

A pair of 7 1/4" forged Swedish steel 4-J for the HBX-360 I'd not want to run at half their rating, either.

Same again a whole stable of 6" +/- 4-J rated not less than 3,500 RPM.

Collets exist!

Dammit. That's why general-purpose lathes have high RPM on their Speisekarte. Not to re-align the entire County under the lathe off gyroscopic precession.
And how about the tens of millions of cast iron automobile flywheels - every one of which went past 2000 every day

Past 4,000, even 5,000 many did. Iron crankshaft ahead of them as well. "White bread" passenger cars, Hell for leather passing coal trucks and such, 2-lane blacktop or its mortal remains .

Surely racing folks went to better goods and scattershields, but wot the hey - those might see a clutch "dumped" at 6,000 to 8,000 RPM!
 
The real issue here - or maybe a side issue - is how stupid people are. They go to sell something and seem unable to list the most basic details.

People often will list an item as 'metal'...because they think carbon steel / cast iron is metal (because it's kinda dark) as opposed to 'aluminum'. Or they refer to something as 'alloy' because they think aluminum is an alloy and steel isn't.

People who show a musclecar for sale with 423 photos of the exerior, 12 of the engine, yet never mention the type of transmission.

People who show a socket set, with 27 photos, yet never mention if they are 12 point or 6 point and of course not a single photo that shows it, either.

People who list a 6 year old vehicle, tell you how great it is and how the ashtray folds down...but never tell you how many miles are on the vehicle.


It never ends....
 
61A98A4B-F6ED-4CEC-AF6F-C15B6C523FBB.jpgIt just occurred to me that installing a simple “high speed disable” stop would make me comfortable selecting any appropriate faceplate, including cast iron. Since I’d never have a need to run a faceplate at anything close to the max rpm(1600) I’d just screw-in (flip a knob, whatever) a device to lock out the top 4 speed segment of the speed range selection rotor. Picture shows this rotor with top 4 speeds enabled, handle at 1:00 position. I can’t recall if handle goes 360 degrees continuous or stops, but if it stops short of 360 degrees, a new stop at about 4:00 would work-just move the handle CW past it before turning the temporary stop “on.” Pic from manual, speed dial is large dial at top with two handles.
 
View attachment 293350It just occurred to me that installing a simple “high speed disable” stop would make me comfortable selecting any appropriate faceplate, including cast iron. Since I’d never have a need to run a faceplate at anything close to the max rpm(1600) I’d just screw-in (flip a knob, whatever) a device to lock out the top 4 speed segment of the speed range selection rotor. Picture shows this rotor with top 4 speeds enabled, handle at 1:00 position. I can’t recall if handle goes 360 degrees continuous or stops, but if it stops short of 360 degrees, a new stop at about 4:00 would work-just move the handle CW past it before turning the temporary stop “on.” Pic from manual.

Sheesh.. Pilgrim.. one of yer split personalities is trying to f**k-up its harmless alter ego? Or just what, yer such a risk to yerself?

You DO pay attention to speed-limit signs whilst operating a motor vehicle?

Is there, perchance, a complex arrangement of Iron shackles and rubberized bungee-cords installed on yer right foot and ankle?

Or is the REAL problem ye've ALREADY failed the Virginia Bar's operating Engineer's sit-down test for a license to operate an ignorant "all manual" wheelbarrow on the grounds of the County jail?

You don't, perchance, "work" for the Government as "Day Job" do yah?
Not much else "fits" as well....

:(
 
Dear neighbor Thermite,
You missed your calling, you ought to be writing for Rush Limbaugh or something. Definitely ought to have your own podcast or blog, ‘cause I suspect much of your wit goes to waste here.

Anyway short answer is that we have others working in the shop, some with no prior machinery experience and a fair amount of my time is keeping them from getting hurt, at least 10 times a day I have to remind them to get PPE before starting a machine. And Mr. Murphy is a full-time employee, always poised to take out an eye or rip off an arm.
 
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I’m surprised newbies to lathe work are turned (sorry for pun) loose on a lathe big enough to have a D1-8 spindle. Would suggest a good amount of time on a relatively safer lathe like a flat belt 9” South Bend first. If a newbie is in my shop, I’m right beside him for quite awhile until I’m satisfied he’s not going to do something stupid. And my teachers/mentors did the same for me.

L7
 
Would you necessarily have to have a 15"? The stresses would go down if you picked something like a 12". Just wondering.

Good suggestion, that’s a possibility, a 12” would probably handle 80% of our planned faceplate/doggie work but I need 3” hole to match the lathe, don’t want to lose capability there.

Another brainstorm I had was a “tightenable” strap fastened around the OD of the faceplate in case it let go, but the chance of it coming off while spinning makes it a poor choice.
 
I’m surprised newbies to lathe work are turned (sorry for pun) loose on a lathe big enough to have a D1-8 spindle. Would suggest a good amount of time on a relatively safer lathe like a flat belt 9” South Bend first. If a newbie is in my shop, I’m right beside him for quite awhile until I’m satisfied he’s not going to do something stupid. And my teachers/mentors did the same for me.

L7

Good suggestion, but you must not spend much time watching YouTube videos of what employees do when boss is out of sight; pretty scary. Some of the older folks I’ve had just do what they damn well please. I bought a safety work cage to chain to the forklift forks that protects the rider all around and has them in an approved harness with shock-relief brake. They flat refused to go near it, preferring to stand on an ordinary pallet going up. Fire them? Then who would I get?
 
How much faceplate work are you going to run at over 500 - 600 rpm let alone the ''danger limit''? ..........precious little I'd wager, for by it's very nature faceplate work is mainly unbalanced / awkward etc etc,

FWIW I've seen a lot of Colchester and Harrison plates marked not to exceed ''X'' rpm
 
As to putting a band around a faceplate - it would be less work to just get a steel face plate, BUT, if the OD of the faceplate was smooth and true, and you had a slightly undersize steel band, you COULD heat it up and let it shrink down on the faceplate OD. This would compressively preload the faceplate.

Like I said, it would be less work..
 
To answer the original question, that faceplate linked is cast iron. You cab tell by the tag with numbers cast into the inside, also just the shape of the recesses on the back- too intricate to be machined. Another clue is most of the back side is raw as cast - see the bumpy surface that have not been machined. If it was steel ALL the surfaces would at least be smooth. Compare the back of a cast iron lathe chuck to a steel one. Cast iron one will look similar to your link and a steel one will be a large machined chunk with machined holes to lighten it. Keep in mind these are not hard and fast rules, more like clues to guide you.
See this link for a steel chuck with drilled holes:
Steel Union Model number 564 16" 4 Jaw Lathe Chuck-Used | eBay
This one also can be used as a faceplate, it has additional slots for that. Buy this and be done.(its not mine) Depending on how often you would swap it, it could just stay on and remove jaws for the odd faceplate job?
 
Get you a slice of 80-55-06 ductile iron bar from Durabar and face it and whatever else you want to do to it. Then mount it to a standard cast iron back plate of a smaller diameter. They have it in diameters up to 26" diameter! We buy chunks in diameters up to 20" pretty often, machines nice, too. That way you don't have to worry what RPM to stay under. Plus, the DI will not break out as easy as CI will, using it as a fixture plate. Ken
 
To answer the original question, that faceplate linked is cast iron. You cab tell by the tag with numbers cast into the inside, also just the shape of the recesses on the back- too intricate to be machined. Another clue is most of the back side is raw as cast - see the bumpy surface that have not been machined. If it was steel ALL the surfaces would at least be smooth. Compare the back of a cast iron lathe chuck to a steel one. Cast iron one will look similar to your link and a steel one will be a large machined chunk with machined holes to lighten it. Keep in mind these are not hard and fast rules, more like clues to guide you.
See this link for a steel chuck with drilled holes:
Steel Union Model number 564 16" 4 Jaw Lathe Chuck-Used | eBay
This one also can be used as a faceplate, it has additional slots for that. Buy this and be done.(its not mine) Depending on how often you would swap it, it could just stay on and remove jaws for the odd faceplate job?

Thx, it is a nice item and for another $150. I’m sure I can get a D1-8 backplate that I can fit to it. Big enuf hole too. Gotta pick up, 9-hr r/t is a bit of a letdown, no time for that, would have to use some kinda pickup service. Now I’m thinking I should just buy a D1-8 backplate plus a steel disc, and machine out the slots I want, but then I know I’d be tied up with that over a day, so maybe that scenic trip on I-70/US 30 isn’t so bad! At least now I have many options.
 
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