Aloris Quad 24 position tool post - modify standard BXA holders to fit ?
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    Default Aloris Quad 24 position tool post - modify standard BXA holders to fit ?

    You can use two standard holders as they are but to use all four stations at once you would need to modify the holders for clearance. I haven't checked any of my cache of BXA holders for hardness but I suspect they aren't real bandsaw friendly. And grinding would be pretty time consuming. Any ideas other than wire EDM ?

    http://www.amazon.com/Aloris-BXA-I-I.../dp/B0006551OE

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    Know anybody that has a wet abrasive saw? Preferably lab quality. We used to use them for sectioning parts, and it would make short work of those modifications, and leave a beautiful surface finish.

    Short of that, put them on the mill and use a carbide endmill. Most likely hardened 4140.

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    I don't know the steel Aloris uses, but it's damn hard. I used an abrasive saw to rough cut them and finish on the Burr King. The cheapos are easily milled.


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    Quote Originally Posted by byawor View Post
    Not sure anyone is "worried" about this but I already have a Vidmar drawer full of pristine real Aloris BXA holders...many of which are the more expensive type such as for holding boring bars, integral knurling, integral drill chuck, etc that might be nice to modify to fit this Quad post.

    As an aside, this Quad thing came with a lathe I just bought, basically for free in the sense that the seller almost certainly would have wanted exactly the same price for the machine with or without a toolpost. I was surprised after the fact to find out how much these things cost. Also surprised at the accuracy Aloris claims....seems like if extra one atom floated into the positioning mechanism it would throw off the accuracy spec.

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    So, sell what you have buy what you need

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    Sniping the corners of std Aloris tool holders can be accomplished a number of ways and the acrasive saw followed by a fettling on a belt sander is probably the simplest.

    Before you commet I suggest looking into the Multifix toolholding system which is very good but expensive; a trifle more expensive than the Aloric of comparable capacity and level of outfitting. If budget is a concern, I especially wish to point out the CreateTool clone which I've tested and determined to be serious professional grade tooling even though its Asian import:

    Create Tool - Toolholder expert ---- Multifix toolpost toolholder | CNC toolholder | QCTP 40 Position QUICK CHANGE TOOL POST HOLDER for Lathe l Best quality Multifix l Good quality Multifix l Manufacturer Multifix l Supplier Multifix l Best Multifix

    Click on the "Multifix Stalhalter" image. Select "E set" ($298 for 5 holders - 3 for 20mm tooling) or "B set" ($340 for 5 holders - 3 for 25 mm tooling). Click on "more" for more refined specs. Use the $900 left over from not porchasing the Aloris indexer for 16 mix and match Multifix holders averaging $60 each.

    If you want a precise 40 position indexing tool holder use import Multifix. They are more compact and rigid, as accurate, and 1/3 the cost of the Aloris tooling. It's a matter of personal choice but I submit once you've given a Multifix a fair trial and got over your frustration that it's NOT an Aloris clone and works a trifle differently, a trifle more conveniently, you will become aware of its virtues and conveniences and wonder why you ever thought Aloris was the greatest toolholder system in the world. Aloris is a good system but it does have has room for improvement. The 24 position indexing post is not an improvement. Load it with tools and its huge, bulky, nearly double the size of a four station turret of the same capacity.

    I reviewed the CreateTool Multifix import clones a couple years ago and found them dimensionally interchangable with the Euro version and as precise. I've used them since and have zero complaints or quibbles.

    Nope. Bite the bullet Milacron. An indexing Aloris post is merely bulky and you will curse the day you bought it - or your customer will curse ou. Want to dispose of your Aloris holder collection? Flog them on eBay (love Brit slang). Want a precision indexing production tool post? Seriously consider import Multifix. Lota of bang for the buck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Addy View Post
    Why spend $1600 just to use a buncha left over BXA style holders for a 24 position tool post when you could use a detestable import Multifiix clone that is actually serious professional grade tooling.
    Bite the bullet Milacron. An indexing Aloris post is merely bulky and you will curse the day you bought it - or your customer will curse ou. Want to dispose of your Aloris holder collection? Flog them on eBay (love Brit slang). Want a precision indexing production tool post? Seriously consider Multifix. Lota of bang for the buck.
    If you had read more carefully you would have noticed that I didn't buy it but rather it came essentially for free on a Harrison CNC lathe...complete with three of the special BXA-I holders to fit it.

    Given the choice of spending $1,600 (plus the holder costs) for an Aloris BXA Quad or buying a similar size Multifix copy, I would agree the Multifix copy a much better bang for buck choice. Those are one of the few tooling items that the Chinese are making accuractely with nice fit and finish. But even that I wouldn't need to do as I already have a couple of real made in Switzerland (not France or Germany like some...but those are ok too) Multifix tool posts left over from some Swiss lathe adventures.

    Having said all that, I thought I might give this Aloris Quad a try to see how I like it. One advantage over the Multifix would be that if 4 holders are enough for the particular job I would think the Aloris more pleasant to use. Easier to push the lock lever open, rotate to desired tool and angle, lock the lever and go...... compared to unlocking the Multifix, physically lifting a holder off, grabbing the next holder from storage, sliding it on in desired position, and locking the lever. In fact the Aloris setup would seem vastly superior for parts where you need to change tools often and quickly. It is on a CNC lathe* after all.

    ---------------------------

    *Flat bed, manual/CNC type lathe...i.e. not high production, but more production that a typical manual only lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by byawor View Post
    So, sell what you have buy what you need
    A reasonable idea until one investigates what the used BXA would bring versus what the new BXA-I would cost.

    That would work out more favorably comparing used Aloris BXA to new Chinese BXA-I copy but besides the fact that the Chinese may not even make some of the more elaborate BXA models in the "I" style I think I'd rather have modified real Aloris than new Chinese holders.

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    Yeah, I missed the secondary point in your second post. Sorry. I still stand by my original arguement.

    Regardless the quad holder effectively defeats the quick change that favors the original Aloris style QCTP in the past. You are stuck with four tools and to change them means to stop, grab a tool, unlock the holder, lift out and replace, re-lock. Not a major evolution but a time drainer that should be considered if the quad post is to be retained.

    I can see the quad post would have virtues if the lathe was runnng parts requiring simple tooling but more than four tools would seem to become a minor bottleneck. I've had jobs that required a dozen tools, groove, radii, trepans, funny champhers. hose barbs, etc.and the Aloris and the Multifix do well because the tooling is mountewd in individual blocks quickly exchanged.

    Frankly I wouldn't have that quad post for free. Yes. its accurate if no chips or debris are trapped in the registers. Otherwise there's no advantage. It's bulky and lame compared to the flexibility and compact envelope of the original Aloris, Multifix, and similar QCTP. The 24 positions is no particular advantage, especially for short parts supported with the center. Kinda like a boat anchor in a punchbowl. Find a sucker and unload it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Addy View Post
    Frankly I wouldn't have that quad post for free. Yes. its accurate if no chips or debris are trapped in the registers. Otherwise there's no advantage. It's bulky and lame compared to the flexibility and compact envelope of the original Aloris, Multifix, and similar QCTP. The 24 positions is no particular advantage, especially for short parts supported with the center. Kinda like a boat anchor in a punchbowl. Find a sucker and unload it.
    I'm a little mystified by the "bulky" comment as a Multifix for similar swing lathe is not exactly the most compact thing. If you want an accurate QC toolpost system that takes up the least amount of space you want a Tripan. Tripan posts were standard issue on many Swiss lathes... what I use on my Schaublin 135 and 102N.

    Tripan Tool Posts

    I've been tempted a few times to change the 135 toolpost over to Multifix but the compact nature of the Tripan does come in handy sometimes when things get "crowded" in the machining zones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest Addy View Post
    Kinda like a boat anchor in a punchbowl. Find a sucker and unload it.
    Careful there Forrest...you're calling an awful lot of folks "suckers"....might compromise your "nice old sage" image

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    I have modified some of my holders both Aloris and Dorian so I would cut those the same way; with a small carbide face mill set up on a mill at 45 degrees. It wouldn't be a fun job as it would be several passed and a lot of blue chips but the cutter will do it and other than loosing the black oxide the finish would have a nice consistent look to it.
    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny VanVoorn View Post
    I have modified some of my holders both Aloris and Dorian so I would cut those the same way; with a small carbide face mill set up on a mill at 45 degrees. It wouldn't be a fun job as it would be several passed and a lot of blue chips but the cutter will do it and other than loosing the black oxide the finish would have a nice consistent look to it.
    Dan
    Since accuracy is not critical, I guess the fastest way for us "suckers" to modify them other than a thin kerf abrasive lab saw would be a large floor model belt sander with effective dust collection system and just hog the whole deal out by hand. OTOH, sans wire EDM, the lab saw would seem the most civilized method. Black oxide returned via Magic Marker

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    This guy will grind you an endmill that will do it just fine.carbide endmill sharpening

    He is jamesu299 on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Know anybody that has a wet abrasive saw? Preferably lab quality. We used to use them for sectioning parts, and it would make short work of those modifications, and leave a beautiful surface finish.
    I wonder if a ceramic tile saw might work if a thin kerf abrasive wheel was mounted intead of the usual diamond wheel ? OTOH, I suspect part of the charm of a proper lab saw is controlled power feed, yes ?

    Milacron

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    Yeah I know, I'm raiding a tomb but I'm faced with the same situation. I'm curious as to what the OP, Milacron ended up doing. I spoke to an Aloris engineer and he told that the holders are machinable. However, a quick test with a file said yeah but not with your machines. What was the final resolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFB View Post
    Yeah I know, I'm raiding a tomb but I'm faced with the same situation. I'm curious as to what the OP, Milacron ended up doing. I spoke to an Aloris engineer and he told that the holders are machinable. However, a quick test with a file said yeah but not with your machines. What was the final resolution.
    How can we help you without knowing what "Machines" you have at you disposal ?

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    No resolution, i believe he sold the lathe including the post.....
    Moving along....
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    No resolution, i believe he sold the lathe including the post.....
    Moving along....
    Cheers Ross
    I am trying to help author of post #18......

    Hence my "quoting" of that post (#18)...

    And You ???
    Last edited by digger doug; 08-14-2019 at 02:04 PM.


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