Anyone know of a source for 10-20 pounds of PEGMO Polyethylene Glycol Mono Oleate?
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    Default Anyone know of a source for 10-20 pounds of PEGMO Polyethylene Glycol Mono Oleate?

    This common industrial ingredient of cosmetics, animal feeds and many other products would be very useful for me in my foundry for making an oil-bound sand.
    But, I have not been able to locate a source. I'd be interested in a molecular weight between 200 and 600 --- PEGMO 200 to 600.

    PEG is not what I need (Polyethylene glycol)

    Yes, I know about commercial oil-bound sand commonly called Petro-Band and also a variant called K-Bond. But, I am specifically interested in an alternative that can be made using PEGMO as an essential ingredient.

    If anyone could connect me with a source, I'd be most appreciative.

    Denis

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    Check amazon. I buy a variety of chemicals there. Also. There are a number of companies that custom make cosmetics and perfumes. They seem to be in nevada and utah. My first ex wife had a line of perfum she had custom made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surplusjohn View Post
    Check amazon. I buy a variety of chemicals there. Also. There are a number of companies that custom make cosmetics and perfumes. They seem to be in nevada and utah. My first ex wife had a line of perfum she had custom made.
    Well, before I posted here, I had checked Amazon! [also McMaster Carr ;-) ]

    I will see if there could be a clue in the cosmetic manufacturer realm. There does not seem to be much listed in the PNW and most likely, to be successful, I'll need to make a face-to-face appeal.

    Denis

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    It's easy really- Just follow these instructions:

    303 See Other

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    It's easy really- Just follow these instructions:

    303 See Other
    For those not inclined to click on the link, it connects to a paper titled "Mass production of poly(ethylene glycol) monooleate-modified core-shell structured upconversion nanoparticles for bio-imaging and photodynamic therapy"

    The abstractr of the article is as follows:
    "
    In recent years, rare-earth upconversion nanoparticles (UCNPs) have attracted much attention due to their unique optical properties, such as large anti-stokes shifts, high signal-to-noise ratio, and remarkable photo- and chemical stability1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Among all kinds of host matrixes of UCNPs, sodium lanthanide tetrafluoride (NaLnF4) nanocrystals, especially the hexagonal structure crystals (β-phase NaLnF4), are the most studied host materials due to the low phonon energies and the high efficiency of energy transfer8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16. Uniform nanocrystals of β-phase NaLnF4 have been produced through thermal decomposition method using various rare-earth precursors17,18,19,20,21. Unfortunately, only few researchers have developed mass-production strategy22,23. Developing a novel synthesis method to massively product high quality NaLnF4 nanocrystals is highly imperative.Since thermal decomposition precursors play an important role in synthesis, selecting an appropriate lanthanide precursor would help expand production. The most commonly used precursors, such as lanthanide chlorides (LnCl3) and trifluoroacetates (Ln-TFA), have some difficulties in practice, e.g., the unsatisfied solubility. Methanol is usually required as solvent. However, the extra procedure of removing methanol makes it environmental-unfriendly, and even no feasibility in mass-production. Moreover, due to the presence of large amounts of water in LnCl3, it may lead to integration of water into the crystal structure of the UCNPs which can decrease the upconversion quantum yield24. Alternatively, using lanthanide trifluoroacetates as precursor would yield a large amount of toxic fluorinated by-products. Therefore, new nontoxic and soluble precursors should be investigated.
    Currently, it has been reported that metal-surfactant complex, such as rare-earth oleates (Ln-OA), would make an effective precursor for synthesizing nanoparticles25,26,27,28. Our research group has successfully realized the controllable synthesis of β-phase NaLnF4 crystals using Ln-OA precursors, and pointed out the optimized synthetic parameters29. Ln-OA could be easily dissolved in reaction media, which would make the procedure facile compared with the other rare-earth precursors. This unique advantage provides a chance to expand the production of UCNPs and further accelerate the process of practicality.
    Using liquid precursors could also contribute to the synthesis of core-shell structured UCNPs. Core-shell structure is of great importance to the optical properties of UCNPs24,30,31,32,33,34,35. Additional shell layers of different materials or compositions endow UCNPs either improved the features or new interesting properties (e.g., the pure host material inert shell could enhance luminescence intensity and the neodymium shell could regulate the excitation wavelength)36,37,38,39,40. In some cases, the accurate tuning requires more than two coated shells41,42,43,44. The existing strategy could only synthesize one layer during one-pot reaction. To make up the deficiencies, successive layer-by-layer (SLBL) strategy was introduced to synthesize multi-shell structured UCNPs instead of tedious multi-cycle batch operation45,46. SLBL strategy usually required successive injection of raw materials, which coincidently matched the easily soluble character of Ln-OA precursors. Thus, we hoped that using Ln-OA precursors would make SLBL strategy more flexible and manoeuvrable.
    In this work, we developed a novel high-throughput method to synthesize poly(ethylene glycol) monooleate (PEG-OA) modified multi-shell structured upconversion nanoparticles (PEG-UCNPs), and then utilized them for photodynamic therapy (PDT). By optimizing the reaction parameters, we obtained more than 10 grams of products with uniform size and morphology in a single reaction. Afterwards, we realized the successful mass-production of multi-shell structured UCNPs using SLBL strategy and liquid Ln-OA precursors. Three different core-shell structural UCNPs with the enhanced upconversion luminescence (UCL), optional excitation source or orthogonal excitations-emissions properties were fabricated. Furthermore, gram quantities of hydrophilic UCNPs with PEG-OA modification were gained through a novel grinding method. Finally, a blue light excited photosensitizer, Hypocrellin A (HA), was loaded on the surface of PEG-UCNPs to construct a PDT platform for simultaneous bio-imaging and PDT in cancer."

    Evidently sent with tongue well in cheek. Or cheekily sent to do a little chain rattling. Etc.

    Denis

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    Realizing how large and diverse the PM membership is, I had hoped there would be someone with a connection who would allow me to buy PEGMO from them at a reasonable cost. The material is not dangerous nor expensive when bought in quantity, but is a niche product with little general demand and is therefore nearly impossible to source in less than 55gallon quantities.

    Denis

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    100ml containers available from Sigma for roughly $50 US.

    Would want to look very carefully into whether oleic acid would be liberated by heating if used in casting iron as it is extremely toxic to lung tissue.

    Can continue discussion by email if needed.

    L7

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky7 View Post
    100ml containers available from Sigma for roughly $50 US.

    Would want to look very carefully into whether oleic acid would be liberated by heating if used in casting iron as it is extremely toxic to lung tissue.

    Can continue discussion by email if needed.

    L7
    A couple thoughts. According to the MSDS this material is "stable"

    I will be using it outdoors and will be about 8 feet from the actual pour based on my equipment setup. Almost always there is a breeze.

    MSDS excerpt:
    "10. Stability and reactivityStability: StableIncompatibility: Avoid contact with strong oxidizing agents.Hazardous Polymerization: Will not occur."

    Perhaps you have more information that does not agree?

    Denis

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    Need a rail car full of it? Probably could hijak a rail car of it along the Texas Gulf Coast down here. Just have to wait for the right one to roll by....

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    Oleon Americas, think it was simpsonville, I think they use it in some agricultural capacity perhaps silage or some such, there’s a laureate one as well, same weight for face cream as it comes in blocks, warm it a bit and it’s liquid,
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgfoster View Post
    . . .According to the MSDS this material is "stable". . .
    Stable under what conditions? Few things are stable at molten metal temperatures.

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    what does "oil-bound sand" do for you? doesnt that burn up? how would it compare to silica bound sand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Heaton View Post
    Stable under what conditions? Few things are stable at molten metal temperatures.
    I took that to mean that it is not known to breakdown into worrisome components. That is different than saying it had been tested under exposure to molten iron. On the other hand it was recommended for use by a university-based pyrometallurgical consultant. So, I would expect he would likely be aware (or quickly made aware by his associates) if there were dangerous breakdown products known to be formed.
    In addition, the pouring of metal will occur outdoors using lifting and pouring equipment I designed that allows me to be 8 feet away from the actual pouring metal. Finally, I will be using the oil-sand on aluminum, not iron, with a pouring temp 1000 degrees F lower than iron.

    Denis

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    what does "oil-bound sand" do for you? doesnt that burn up? how would it compare to silica bound sand?
    Trust me. I’ve been at this for few years.

    I sure hope someone can help me find PEGMO at reasonable cost. That would be in the dollar or two per pound realm. Boutique sources can be found for 50 times that. Someone knows someone who works where it is used in bulk on an industrial scale.

    Denis

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    You want the industrial not the analytical, trust me the analytical standards come with a big big price ticket, think 25k per 100ml, not joking btw, best part the gas chromatography used to inject micro litres into their machines
    100 ml lasts a long time, crazy
    Mark

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    "Trust me. I’ve been at this for few years.":

    thats why you might care to explain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    "Trust me. I’ve been at this for few years.":

    thats why you might care to explain.
    Respectfully, there is a great deal written already on the internet concerning petrobond usage. I guess I just didn't feel I had the time to write a rehash. I do not intend to use it for iron but rather to make aluminum flasks for iron casting. Yes, using petrobond for iron is not considered an ideal choice by many, myself included.

    I do routinely use silcate (not silica) bound sand. It woriks well and for basic information on its use Tom Cobett published a well-written and authoritative monograph on the Web.

    Denis

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    I take "stable" to mean stable at typical ambient conditions.

    They make food grade sulfuric acid. Feel free to take a sip.

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    What makes you think 1-2 bucks a pound is reasonable?

    Sigma has a variety of types;
    https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog...g=en&region=US

    But the small oligimers of Polyethylene, like PEG 400, are hard to separate (that is if you could find a mix of PEGs ranging from 400 to 600, it would be a LOT cheaper than PEG 400, which has a very narrow MW range) . It may be that 30 bucks a pound is actually a good price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    What makes you think 1-2 bucks a pound is reasonable?

    Sigma has a variety of types;
    https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog...g=en&region=US

    But the small oligimers of Polyethylene, like PEG 400, are hard to separate (that is if you could find a mix of PEGs ranging from 400 to 600, it would be a LOT cheaper than PEG 400, which has a very narrow MW range) . It may be that 30 bucks a pound is actually a good price.
    I sure do not need reagent grade PEGMO. I'd be more than happy to get a mix of any thing with a weight of between 200 and 600 as stated in my original post.

    The reason I think a couple bucks is a good price is that is what the guy that wrote up the use of PEGMO in oil-bound sand told me. I figure he should know. The stuff is used in animal feed, for instance. It must be available inexpensively. I'm trying to locate that source. If I were making boxcar loads of feed and ordering 500 gallons at a time, no problem. But I do not need those quantities. 50 bucks a pound may be a fair price for some forms of PEGMO, sure. But fair price is one thing and pracitcal for my needs quite another.

    Denis
    Last edited by dgfoster; 11-29-2020 at 08:14 AM. Reason: Comma


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